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Thread: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

  1. #2441

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Sansa poking Ramsay about how is naturalization will mean nothing once Fat Walda has the baby was great.

    So was Theon going up the tower and Ramsay just casually eating breakfast and going "Oh hey Reek, what's up?".

  2. #2442

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by taboo View Post
    Lancel Lannister is the greatest game of thrones character in existence
    I miss his hair and bandana. He used to look like an uber pretty rogue. Like at any minute, I was going to steal glitter from the glitter factory, and no one would know or see him, because he's that good of a pretty rogue.

  3. #2443
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    When you strip away the finery of Theon you have Reek. Theon was a garbage human being on the inside. Now he's a garbage human being on the outside. Had the finery not been stripped he'd still be Theon. I don't feel sorry for people like that.

  4. #2444

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
    I'm surprised so many people are waiting for Theon's redemption. I've always felt that had he got his hands on the stark boys he would have killed them just as easily as he killed those two farm boys. It's one thing to be a slave but it's a different thing to be something like Reek. Lacking the courage to help or to end his own life he takes actions that he knows will cause the immense suffering of others. He basically got that woman flayed alive. Nothing can redeem him for me. Anything that brings him something even close to that is too much. If he should survive this I hope it's as a broken man in a room somewhere afraid of the ghost of Ramsay for the rest of his cowardly life.

    As for Ramsay I always think a life of suffering is crueler than death. Still for some reason I don't hate him as much as I hate Joffrey. I think it's because he knows he's a monster. I don't believe he thinks himself the hero of anyones story. He just wants to be the worst villain they've ever met. He doesn't justify his actions as much as states them as if "obviously this is how you react in _____ situation." I don't know what kind of end I would want for him. I guess anything is fine.



    I don't really see that difference. In both situations she is put in a terrible situation and is relying on others to help her escape it. I don't think that's an oversimplification either. The most active thing she's done is pick up that thing without Ramsay noticing. But Brienne is still a loaded rescue gun waiting to be fired. Like I said earlier it's easier just to stop caring about her story because there's only so many times I can voice my disgust before even I tire of hearing myself repeat it.



    That was Lancel Lannister. Cersei slept with him in the earlier season while Jaime was away. She also gave him the special wine to give to Robert for his hunt hoping he would get extra extra drunk and injure himself which he did. That's breaking marriage vows and attempted regicide. Maybe just plain regicide since he died.
    Theon gets redemption in the eyes of many and becomes a fan favorite.
    In the books (as well as being widely considered the best PoV in it and maybe in the entire series) but the show is changing his plot and while I like the change a from a show standpoint knoqing what actually happens with him it does hurt me that he'll never get the same love among show watchers.
    Also it's a lot more complicated than Theon just going out and callously killing kids.
    He was in a terrible state of mind and just wasn't thinking clearly whatsoever with literally the devil (Ramsay Bolton) whispering in his ear about what he should do in all these scenarios and he's the one who suggested the murders and he regretted it immensely and has been haunted by those murders ever since plus he was fighting against his own nature every step of the way with what he did so it's not like he was gungho about it.
    And Theon deserved a swift death not this abhorrent torture and I don't see how anyone can support it.
    Personally Theon is my absolute favorite character so I've routinely wrestled with how much leniency I should give him and I still think that the best course of action would be a swift execution because no amount of torture can erase his sins but and he'll always have the chance to do better or do some good in the world or find peace or whatever while the kids he kills can't but I can still see how absolutely tragic his story is.
    Though if his newfound humility can bring some good into the world possibly through reforming the iron islands so be it.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    Specialy as he knew the mother, and had sex with her, enough times to have fathered these two kids.
    They probably aren't his and it's been worked out that he only could have possibly fathered one of them if any at all.

  5. #2445

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Theon is a guilt-ridden pity pile who was deeply confused as to where his true home was. He went along with his biological family's absolutely batshit scheme to conquer the North and ended up destroying connection to his actual family thanks to Ramsay being the world's most convincing shoulder devil.

    He's been raped, mutilated, flayed, castrated, brainwashed, and traumatized beyond belief. Saddest thing is that he honestly feels that he deserves all of it. Even Sansa's like "okay bro this is a bit much here, i would have settled with you getting your head chopped off no need to go above and beyond."

    Theon's happy ending (and he's getting one) is finally being allowed to die after trying to save what's left of his family and being remembered by most of the North for generations as a horrible turncloak (child killing stigma may go away once people remember where they misplaced Rickon.)

  6. #2446

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
    When you strip away the finery of Theon you have Reek. Theon was a garbage human being on the inside. Now he's a garbage human being on the outside. Had the finery not been stripped he'd still be Theon. I don't feel sorry for people like that.
    Reek isn't a garbage human being he's a victim of torture.
    He didn't tell on Sansa out of malice he told on her out of fear and any of us would have done the same.
    Theon isn't a garbage human being he was a person taken from his family and brought up by his captives with identity issues and a chronic inclination to fuck everything up but he never took joy in the escapades of the ironborn and every terrible thing he did he felt terrible about.
    He's a fuck up like many people we probably know in real life but because he's a lord it's on a higher scale.
    But I will say that part of Reek is about stripping away every bad quality Theon has such as his misogyny, ego, pride, snarkiness etc etc in order to build a new and improved one.
    Maybe through Sansa he'll be able to get some peace with the Starks before his death if he does die.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyan D. Funk View Post
    Theon is a guilt-ridden pity pile who was deeply confused as to where his true home was. He went along with his biological family's absolutely batshit scheme to conquer the North and ended up destroying connection to his actual family thanks to Ramsay being the world's most convincing shoulder devil.

    He's been raped, mutilated, flayed, castrated, brainwashed, and traumatized beyond belief. Saddest thing is that he honestly feels that he deserves all of it. Even Sansa's like "okay bro this is a bit much here, i would have settled with you getting your head chopped off no need to go above and beyond."

    Theon's happy ending (and he's getting one) is finally being allowed to die after trying to save what's left of his family and being remembered by most of the North for generations as a horrible turncloak (child killing stigma may go away once people remember where they misplaced Rickon.)
    Sometimes out of all the characters in the series I wonder what it was about Theon that made Grrm come down so hard on him.
    He was a pretty douchey guy though and the stuff he did do was terrible so I guess that the whole Reek situation was just perfect to strip Theon down with and the identity thing worked even better with him than any other character.
    He was supposed to be one of the original PoV's in GoT along with Davos but there wasn't enough space for them in the book (those were originally going to be the only PoV's) so he probably had at least part of this planned from the beginning.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyan D. Funk View Post
    Theon is a guilt-ridden pity pile who was deeply confused as to where his true home was. He went along with his biological family's absolutely batshit scheme to conquer the North and ended up destroying connection to his actual family thanks to Ramsay being the world's most convincing shoulder devil.

    He's been raped, mutilated, flayed, castrated, brainwashed, and traumatized beyond belief. Saddest thing is that he honestly feels that he deserves all of it. Even Sansa's like "okay bro this is a bit much here, i would have settled with you getting your head chopped off no need to go above and beyond."

    Theon's happy ending (and he's getting one) is finally being allowed to die after trying to save what's left of his family and being remembered by most of the North for generations as a horrible turncloak (child killing stigma may go away once people remember where they misplaced Rickon.)
    Sometimes out of all the characters in the series I wonder what it was about Theon that made Grrm come down so hard on him.
    He was a pretty douchey guy though and the stuff he did do was terrible so I guess that the whole Reek situation was just perfect to strip Theon down with and the identity thing worked even better with him than any other character.
    He was supposed to be one of the original PoV's in GoT along with Davos but there wasn't enough space for them in the book (those were originally going to be the only PoV's) so he probably had at least part of this planned from the beginning.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Game of Thrones likes to subvert tropes like last minute rescues so they end up making Sansa the victim of repeated rapes.

    Spoiler:
    Game of Thrones falls into trope of turning Sansa into a damsel in distress who is litteraly locked away in her room from the rest of the world needing to be rescued. Understandable, given the cliche situation the writers put her in. I will say this about her character though and possible actions for the future. She did grab that tool/weapon so perhaps she will end up brutally killing (and I mean like REPEATED STABS TO THE NECK) Ramsey in bed and recue herself by planting the candle in the tower and calling for help. As for Theon...man, I don't know what they'll do with his character. For a time I felt bad for him and I still do but significantly less. How long will the writers make him wallow in his own feces before he develops some kind of backbone? I understand he's in trauma and fear but, damn, he has had so many chances to escape or right some kind of wrong but he continously fails to step up to the plate. His redemption moment better be grand.
    Look I hate being a book purist and I absolutely love what they did with Theon's plot in season two but after this season or after the entire series if you want an amazing Theon story just read his aDwD chapter's, that's the quintessential Theon story and are probably the best thing written imo out of the entire five books which is why I'm so passionate about them.
    Easily one of the best things I've ever had the privilege of reading.
    And it's not that the show isn't good for his plot, it's just that it can't compare to how masterfully it was done by Grrm.
    And I like the show plus I really don't like being the source material or die guy (I only really badger that with Skypiea/Post Enies Lobby One Piece and Theon)

  7. #2447
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    I think you guys are giving Theon way more credit than he deserves. I don't think he'd lie awake at night wondering about the boys he butchered if his plans succeeded. I don't think he'd give any fucks if he ended up on the Seastone Chair. You guys are painting him like he's this poor creature caught up in it all. A victim of Baelon's machinations, a victim of the whisperings of Ramsay, a victim of his authority as commander.

    Theon made choices. They were his to make and he had far better options than most of the people in that world. He could have been almost anything he wanted. He chose to be person that he ended up as. One bad choice at a time. He chooses to live as Reek. He chose to betray Sansa knowing it would get that woman killed. If he had to choose between your life and his he would choose his every single time.

    I don't find that complicated, interesting, or sympathetic. I've read his PoV btw and this is the first I'm hearing such praise for it.

  8. #2448

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
    I think you guys are giving Theon way more credit than he deserves. I don't think he'd lie awake at night wondering about the boys he butchered if his plans succeeded. I don't think he'd give any fucks if he ended up on the Seastone Chair. You guys are painting him like he's this poor creature caught up in it all. A victim of Baelon's machinations, a victim of the whisperings of Ramsay, a victim of his authority as commander.

    Theon made choices. They were his to make and he had far better options than most of the people in that world. He could have been almost anything he wanted. He chose to be person that he ended up as. One bad choice at a time. He chooses to live as Reek. He chose to betray Sansa knowing it would get that woman killed. If he had to choose between your life and his he would choose his every single time.

    I don't find that complicated, interesting, or sympathetic. I've read his PoV btw and this is the first I'm hearing such praise for it.
    Well Theon is my favorite character so I'm probably exaggerating a bit but from what I've seen across the various forums/threads/articles on the internet his PoV is widely considered the best by a mile in Dance and one of the best in the series, I generally see people putting his and Jaime's neck and neck.
    Though I don't think that more people liking something necessarily gives it more legitimacy especially because I'm generally the person picking the less popular option.

  9. #2449

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    guys the real torture is being forced to watch the adventures of Samwell Tarley every season


  10. #2450

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by taboo View Post
    guys the real torture is being forced to watch the adventures of Samwell Tarley every season
    What's wrong with Sam the Slayer?

  11. #2451

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    he's slaying my will to live


  12. #2452

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Everything that happened to Theon pre-Reek is on Theon and he deserves to be executed for it. Everything post-Reek is all on Ramsay. His entire state of mind right now is because of what Ramsay did to him. Blame could still be put on Theon to a point since it's still his actions, but Ramsay's the true monster here who made him what he is now.

  13. #2453
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    I remember a current fan fave pushing a small child out of a high window (attempted murder) without a hint of hesitation just so he could continue dicking his sister. Most people would not say he deserves more than what he got because the writers allowed him to improve. They allowed him to grow from his mistakes. On the other hand with Theon's character they are seriously fucking with him in the most depraved manners. Yeah, he fucked up but the figurative and literal shit he has been through has been...enough? He got what he deserved already and more. The only thing he deserves next is some kind of act of bravery and a quick death which would be a mercy. Even the act of living is hell for him now. The writers need to put him down and stop wagging him in front of us like a bleeding dog they're experimenting on how long they can keep alive.
    Everything's Eventual...


  14. #2454

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    I remember a current fan fave pushing a small child out of a high window (attempted murder) without a hint of hesitation just so he could continue dicking his sister. Most people would not say he deserves more than what he got because the writers allowed him to improve. They allowed him to grow from his mistakes. On the other hand with Theon's character they are seriously fucking with him in the most depraved manners. Yeah, he fucked up but the figurative and literal shit he has been through has been...enough? He got what he deserved already and more. The only thing he deserves next is some kind of act of bravery and a quick death which would be a mercy. Even the act of living is hell for him now. The writers need to put him down and stop wagging him in front of us like a bleeding dog they're experimenting on how long they can keep alive.
    The utter and complete destruction of Theon means more theme wise and depending on where George goes with him story wise more so than Jaime losing his hand did though so it's not just gratuitous torture porn.

  15. #2455
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taboo View Post
    guys the real torture is being forced to watch the adventures of Samwell Tarley every season
    Lol, I don't mind Sam. Yeah, he can be a little annoying in a world full of badasses and warriors but he can pretty badass himself for a "weakling". The way he stood up to those bullies (an understatement for attempted rapists) was pretty cool. He killed a White Walker, Taboo! How many others can make that claim!? Sam is destined to be an unlikely great hero in the greatest battle this land has ever seen! He's like Neville Longbottom except he doesn't age to become a hunk.

    ...or maybe he'll just be a glorified librarian who researches some vital way to defeat the White Walkers. Either way, he has a good future even in death.

    That reminds me of other things in this episode...

    Spoiler:
    Wow, one of the last Targaryen died.

    Also, truth be told I'm rooting for Cercei. She just plays her character so well I don't want it to end, lol. Points to that grandmother who poisoned Joffery but if Cercei comes out the winner in this whole debacle I won't be upset unless she does something truly evil. It is kind of dumb though she has been working with a religious fanatic and didn't think he'd also come after her after the incestuous affairs she engaged in. Like, did she forget her cousin was a part of the group? Lastly, glad Dany might be getting new counsel from the awesome Tyrion. I'm probably one of the few who have been enjoying the going-ons there across the world. Admittedly, it has grown a bit stale because she has been sitting in that palace for a while now but I sense Tyrion will help spice things up.


    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by springsring View Post
    The utter and complete destruction of Theon means more theme wise and depending on where George goes with him story wise more so than Jaime losing his hand did though so it's not just gratuitous torture porn.
    I don't mind the stripping of Theon's character and failings. I mind the continued stripping of his character, which there is nothing more left, of and his continued failings. The man can't get any lower without the show getting any sicker so do something else new with the guy! I just hope they're building up to the moment he has some kind of success!
    Everything's Eventual...


  16. #2456

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by springsring View Post
    The utter and complete destruction of Theon means more theme wise and depending on where George goes with him story wise more so than Jaime losing his hand did though so it's not just gratuitous torture porn.
    No. It really is just gratuitous torture porn.

    The books didn't go anywhere near that level of detail into what happened to him or for so long. They said he was tortured, and the results, and... drove him mad. The first like, 1/3 of of book 5 we don't even know its *him* he's been so messed up, the chapter titles just call him Reek.

    Yeah, the books are fucked up, but there's a line somewhere.
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  17. #2457

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    No. It really is just gratuitous torture porn.

    The books didn't go anywhere near that level of detail into what happened to him or for so long. They said he was tortured, and the results, and... drove him mad. The first like, 1/3 of of book 5 we don't even know its *him* he's been so messed up, the chapter titles just call him Reek.

    Yeah, the books are fucked up, but there's a line somewhere.
    Oh yah I was talking about it more from a books stand point.
    The show did take it too far in season three but because we can't get into Reeks head like in the books they had to show us what happened with him.

  18. #2458

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by taboo View Post
    guys the real torture is being forced to watch the adventures of Samwell Tarley every season
    In an ocean of treachery and lies is nice to have a character just being an honest guy. He save his and Jon life this season with the whole vote for Jon speech. And he is a white walker slayer. Even with all his shortcomings he knows how to play the game well enough. And with his gift to Jon this episode he may have save him again. Go Samwell.

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  19. #2459
    UNTITLED xan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    It's less ironic and more justified? It's not like he "deserves" it. He really does deserve it. Sansa is an 'innocent girl' who has been manipulated, passed around, used, and trapped for most of the series. Ramsey is a sick piece of shit. Of course you're not defending a psychopath and we're not really being ironic in wanting a piece of shit to suffer. It's not ironic to dislike the throwing away of a good apple while accepting the throwing away of a rotten apple. They are just not the same thing.
    No what I am referring to is the way that we believe he should die. It is one thing wishing he would die soon and another thing wishing that he would die in the worst way possible because he hurt a character we relate to. Our empathy for a character we like has turned us into people who wouldn't normally wish something terrible to happen to a human being. It is "justified" and not just justified because the justification lies entirely upon our anger towards a character's actions to a character we relate to

    There was an event in my country where a girl had complained to her brothers that she was sexually assaulted and word spread which resulted in a mob fury causing the guy to be dragged out of his home, paraded naked and killed off. Now these are people who wouldn't dish out a medeival punishment in normal circumstances but they just needed an emotional push which made them lose their shit. Later they found out that the allegations were indeed false. I am ofc not saying its false here I am just saying sometimes empathy makes us blind. The irony is that we wouldn't mind Ramsey getting his balls chopped off and brutally raped which was the reason why we were mad at him in the first place. Just an observation
    “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."

  20. #2460

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    No what I am referring to is the way that we believe he should die. It is one thing wishing he would die soon and another thing wishing that he would die in the worst way possible because he hurt a character we relate to. Our empathy for a character we like has turned us into people who wouldn't normally wish something terrible to happen to a human being. o
    Not a human being. A fictional character. A really horrible one at that. In a narrative designed to draw out strong emotion and attachment. Of course we want retribution and payback and catharsis, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

    Declaring you want pain inflicted on an actor or something for being in a bad movie? Not so much.

    That said, its fine to celebrate in the death of monsters like Hitler or Bin Laden and not feel at all squicky about it.
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