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Thread: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

  1. #5741

    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    So do guys who have weapons that manipulate dangerous elements and lighthearted version of Joker. Yet people will still judge them based on cheesy names.
    Hey coming up with good supervillain names is hard......or too easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  2. #5742

    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    The worst when their actual starting original names are already bad puns that just mean they're destined to be a villain.

    E. Nygma being the Riddler. Victor Fries becoming Freeze. Roy G. Bivolo becoming Rainbow Raider. Doctor Doom (it's his actual damn name!) Doctor Strange. John Henry Irons becomes Steel. And so on.

    Some people were just born to become costumed weirdos.

  3. #5743
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    E.Nygma could have been a detective.

    Don't mess with the Law if you don't have an Ace up your sleeve.

  4. #5744
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    We've already got Vic Sage as The Question as the resident detective.

    Not all villains have weird names. I never considered Lex Luthor or Harvey Dent as particularly silly.

  5. #5745
    Discovered Stowaway Riddler's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    I thought the original name was Edward Nashton and he changed it to E. Nygma later on? But that's probably a retcon.

  6. #5746

    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    E.Nygma could have been a detective.
    That's actually how the comics tried running him for a while a few years back. He reformed and went through as a detective... and it was a way to play up Batman's detective skills. He and Riddler would get in on the same case, and Riddler would make the wrong deduction while Bats would get the real answer.

    It worked pretty well to have him be a conceited antagonist rather than a straight up villain with a reeeeeally tedious gimmick.

    That was before the New 52 so that was two reboots ago, I have no idea what he's doing now.

  7. #5747

    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    Nicolas Cage will apparently voice Superman in the Teen Titans Go! To the Movies.

    Spoiler:

  8. #5748
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    That's actually how the comics tried running him for a while a few years back. He reformed and went through as a detective... and it was a way to play up Batman's detective skills. He and Riddler would get in on the same case, and Riddler would make the wrong deduction while Bats would get the real answer.

    It worked pretty well to have him be a conceited antagonist rather than a straight up villain with a reeeeeally tedious gimmick.

    That was before the New 52 so that was two reboots ago, I have no idea what he's doing now.
    He's back to regular villain status. Had a crime war against Joker a few months ago. Although that was technically a flashback arc about Batman feeling needlessly guilty for considering to kill or something silly like that.

    I think a few Batman villains would be better if they occupied more different niches than all of them being gimmicky criminal psychos. Riddler being a conceited detective trying to one up Batman, but not straight up evil sounds a LOT more refreshing than his usual shtick. Supervillain Riddler is always either ridiculously goofy or Jigsaw with riddles. It gets old after the first couple times, let alone decades. Some sort of detective or hacktivist gig to rival Batman would do wonders.

    This also reminds me of why Two-Face is problematic to me. He is the type of villain that only works for one or two stories, and a second story only works if it focuses on whether or not redemption is possible. He is memorable for his tragedy, but loses sympathy or any new ground to tread after completing his villain metamorphosis. He also becomes one of several crime bosses where his only gimmick is obsessing overs twos and flipping a coin for "fair" decisions, which almost never works in a compelling way if both choices are corrupt or one is doing nothing. He also feels really petty in how he starts out as a district attorney and, out of all the interesting roles to twist that type of justice perspective towards, ends up becoming a gang boss bank robber. The best iteration of Two-Face I've seen is Telltale's interpretation where he becomes a totalitarian mayor of Gotham.

    Don't even get me started on Poison Ivy. I never cared for the "plants>humans" mentality, that's the one Batman villain gimmick I find neither interesting nor memorably goofy, just boring. And she has a constant identity crisis between being a villain, ally, on/off girlfriend, hating humans, being cured, etc. The most interesting role she ever has is being a powerhouse for villain alliances, which makes her more of a plot device than a character.

    And Scarecrow... I don't even know. I like the fear gas gimmick. I like his look. But one thing I never really got for this guy is... what is his goal? Aside from money, which is trivial. Yes, I know he likes making people scared out of a deranged psychological analysis curiosity. But THEN what? What does he do after making Gotham perpetually frightened? What does this accomplish? The only way this character makes sense for me is if he's may be trying to find some sort of "cure for fear" but in a more selfish messed up way than Mr. Freeze saving his wife or being an anti-hero/neutral/anti-villain vigilante version of Batman. I wonder why that has never been attempted when he uses fear like Batman.

    Killer Croc and Clayface only really work as minions or character studies if they have a good writer rather than actual compelling solo villains.

    I think the only Batman villains that can engage me without being a greedy one-note gimmick are Joker (although he is WAY too hackneyed), Penguin (he has a lot of potential that isn't tapped into that often as a somewhat sane morally shifty crime boss, like taking over Wayne Enterprises in the Telltale game), Mr. Freeze, Ra's al Ghul, Harley Quinn, Bane (when he's not written as a mindless junkie brute), Hugo Strange, and maybe Catwoman (I don't care for repetitive on/off-again femme fatale romances, but she's had interesting roles and character interactions).

    But even they get old. I love and hate Batman, primarily because of his stagnant status-quo aside from bloating up the Bat-Family more and more over the years. Spider-Man's rogues gallery engages me more because of how they can actually evolve their roles and characterizations over time.
    Last edited by Count Mario; March 13th, 2018 at 04:22 PM.

    Spoiler:
    "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

  9. #5749

    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    Scarecrow should've stayed a Yellow Lantern because holy shit that's a good idea.


  10. #5750

    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    But even they get old. I love and hate Batman, primarily because of his stagnant status-quo aside from bloating up the Bat-Family more and more over the years. Spider-Man's rogues gallery engages me more because of how they can actually evolve their roles and characterizations over time.
    I guess it must be the fact that the majority of Spider-Man villains are born from a failed experiment.

    Spoiler:

  11. #5751
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    I guess it must be the fact that the majority of Spider-Man villains are born from a failed experiment.
    Spoiler:

    Spoiler:
    "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

  12. #5752
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    That's actually how the comics tried running him for a while a few years back. He reformed and went through as a detective... and it was a way to play up Batman's detective skills. He and Riddler would get in on the same case, and Riddler would make the wrong deduction while Bats would get the real answer.

    It worked pretty well to have him be a conceited antagonist rather than a straight up villain with a reeeeeally tedious gimmick.

    That was before the New 52 so that was two reboots ago, I have no idea what he's doing now.
    That seems to fit him so much more.

    Don't mess with the Law if you don't have an Ace up your sleeve.

  13. #5753

    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    If there ever was a solid "ultimate" Batman/DCU universe of continuity(You know, like if Batman: Earth One continued), I'd love to see the Riddler tied into Bruce Wayne's training years overseas, with him traveling to Gotham specifically to test the Batman's intellect.

    I get why certain villains are going to always be tied in origin and motives to Gotham, but I think Edward Nygma would work much better as pretty much the brainy equivalent to
    Kraven the hunter for Spidey. Maybe him and Bruce could have a shared origin in their studies that led them to develop such unique minds.

    Think a rival/antagonistic take on Bruce's origin with Zatanna in TAS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    A magical strange Twilight Zone episode where no other education is offered, and the only option is Bill Nye the Science Guy videos

  14. #5754
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post

    Don't even get me started on Poison Ivy. I never cared for the "plants>humans" mentality, that's the one Batman villain gimmick I find neither interesting nor memorably goofy, just boring. And she has a constant identity crisis between being a villain, ally, on/off girlfriend, hating humans, being cured, etc. The most interesting role she ever has is being a powerhouse for villain alliances, which makes her more of a plot device than a character.

    And Scarecrow... I don't even know. I like the fear gas gimmick. I like his look. But one thing I never really got for this guy is... what is his goal? Aside from money, which is trivial. Yes, I know he likes making people scared out of a deranged psychological analysis curiosity. But THEN what? What does he do after making Gotham perpetually frightened? What does this accomplish? The only way this character makes sense for me is if he's may be trying to find some sort of "cure for fear" but in a more selfish messed up way than Mr. Freeze saving his wife or being an anti-hero/neutral/anti-villain vigilante version of Batman. I wonder why that has never been attempted when he uses fear like Batman.
    I like Ivy and Catwoman partly because they are strong female characters. A little too sexualized, but strong nonetheless. That and I always like "Mother Nature" characters. Don't fuck with Mother Nature.

    As for Scarecrow, I always figured that part of his goal was to take down Batman for screwing up his profession and driving him underground. And given that he's psycho at the core like so many others, what from I saw he didn't care about giving his findings to the Peer Review or anything, he just found studying fear fascinating and likes to keep doing it. Like a kid with his favorite toy.

  15. #5755
    Colin Baker Apologist Mr. Zoro's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    He's back to regular villain status. Had a crime war against Joker a few months ago. Although that was technically a flashback arc about Batmsn feeling needlessly guilty for considering to kill or something silly like that.
    Hey now, the real "villain" that shined through in the War on Jokes and Riddles arc was Kite Man (hell yeah).
    Last edited by Mr. Zoro; March 13th, 2018 at 01:31 PM.

  16. #5756

    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    My ideal Scarecrow is the Arkham Knight design voiced by Robert Englund.


  17. #5757

    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyan D. Funk View Post
    My ideal Scarecrow is the Arkham Knight design voiced by Robert Englund.
    the fact that it took until Injustice 2 for Scarecrow to be voiced by Englund is an injustice in its own right

    Set Art by Daily Rowlet

  18. #5758
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    As for Scarecrow, I always figured that part of his goal was to take down Batman for screwing up his profession and driving him underground. And given that he's psycho at the core like so many others, what from I saw he didn't care about giving his findings to the Peer Review or anything, he just found studying fear fascinating and likes to keep doing it. Like a kid with his favorite toy.
    Joker does the Batman obsession thing in spades without it becoming boring, primarily because it dives a lot into psychological conflict that goes in a lot more directions than "I feel scared or guilty of so and so". Joker's insanity can be used as escapism running away from memories about his tragic life, he could reveal how flawed ethics/justice are to "help" other people become insane, he can pull silly gags and troll people for kicks, he could put the justice system's capital punishment consideration in for a loop because of being so dangerous yet certifiably insane, etc. And I can see Joker having other aspirations that stay in-character purely because he embodies anarchy and wants the world to abandon its morals. It's a simple motivation, but can go in so many directions to keep feeling interesting. Aside from the occasional story that tries to claim the Joker would get bored/depressed if Batman wasn't around, which is fine in its own right too.

    My thoughts on Scarecrow:
    Spoiler:
    Scarecrow wanting revenge feels very petty in comparison, especially since he (not any Batman villain) will EVER affect Bruce's life on Joker's level. And solely focusing on destroying one man still feels like a waste for all of the character/plot potential somebody with fear gas could accomplish. He has a cool design by looking like a creepy scarecrow and sometimes having Freddy Krueger needle gloves, but that is the most I can actually praise him for.

    Also, the fear gas itself is a one trick pony. Having a hero be tested against their phobias and self-doubt is always awesome, especially if it becomes a literal manifestation warping their perception of reality. But after Batman overcomes his fears once, that's it. Fear gas isn't taken seriously as a threat anymore. Sure, you can change up what type of illusion it is, but it still has the same basic narrative solution of endurance and courageously embracing what makes you afraid. It can't be as versatile for story conflicts as Joker's variety of deluded shenanigans or Riddler testing Batman's intellect, although both of those things can get old when the status-quo keeps going right back to normal after almost every arc or a couple years of apparent change. So it can only be kept interesting by having other people with different fears and internal conflicts affected with fear gas, and who could actually lose to Scarecrow's fear toxins in contrast to Batman. And fully taking advantage of that requires giving Scarecrow something to do that's more than vengeance solely against Batman.


    Villains constantly fixated on revenge more often than not end up repetitive after a while if they can't fit into any other niche or plot purpose. Like Venom. But he changed in the 90's to become an anti-hero and so on.

    I like Ivy and Catwoman partly because they are strong female characters. A little too sexualized, but strong nonetheless. That and I always like "Mother Nature" characters. Don't fuck with Mother Nature.
    Poison Ivy has the exact opposite problem for me that Scarecrow has. Her nature preservation/expansion obsession provides a motivation does "make sense" as a goal granting satisfaction and purpose, and can be versatile in the types of story roles she can have. Hence the identity crisis I mentioned.

    My thoughts on Poison Ivy:
    Spoiler:
    However, unlike how Scarecrow's design and abilities are appealing to me on the surface level, I find her nature lover gimmick lackluster. Controlling plants in and of itself does not really fascinate as a unique ability unless it gets REALLY researched beyond common knowledge. So that type of power is more about execution drawing me in. Although that is obviously my subjective perspective, not a fact. I respect thinking that mother nature is kickass. I love lightning powers, especially when they incorporate tricks like electromagnetism. But it only makes her stand out as one of the few super powered villains in Gotham. And while I am always game for female characters being strong in the physical sense, they also need to be strong or interesting personality/background-wise too.

    And no matter how important it is to prevent pollution, rainforest destruction, and global warming, I can never get fully invested in "I think plants matter more than people who can talk and visibly feel pain". It is really hard for me to be fascinated with that because it always goes for that trite "mankind is the REAL monster" message I always roll my eyes at since it's so obvious and doesn't speak for every human being's integrity. We've seen that a million times in animated children's movies and PSAs, it's nothing new.

    Almost every other Batman has a peculiar philosophy that could possibly be explored as sympathetic or insightful about the flawed human psyche. Looking into what we're afraid of and why can be interesting. Analyzing how we might want to ditch our morals to embrace madness can be interesting. Dissecting the flaws in our justice system and how we can rely on "objective" chance/fate over rationality can be interesting. Evaluating how far we can go to save somebody we care about and possibly be in denial about their death can be interesting. Investigating the effects of immortality and far you are willing to go in potentially saving humanity through underhanded means can be interesting.

    But what am I supposed to find interesting about REALLY liking plants? I say this as somebody who loves to observe nature and hear about gardening or favorite plants when I talk to my friends. Maybe I can feel sorry for Ivy if she looks to plants for comfort and can't rely on humans in some tragic backstory or way of life. But I can't actually feel bad for plants in a very profound way that's more than "damn, that kind of sucks". I can feel terrible for animal mistreatment, but nature abuse is tricky. So when Poison Ivy is the one of the very "selfless" Batman villains trying to save plant life, it is difficult for me to be fascinated with her schemes and mentality. At best, I can pity her as a tragic figure, but not find her morals interesting.


    She might be a little too sexualized, but at least she is one of the few female comic book characters where being scantily clad and looking as artificial as a porn star makes sense since she's a seductress manipulating others for her goals.

    Spoiler:
    "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

  19. #5759

    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    https://deadline.com/2018/03/ava-duv...by-1202338680/

    damn it all, i might actually have to see this one
    I'm a damn sucker for Mister Miracle and Big Barda

    Set Art by Daily Rowlet

  20. #5760

    Default Re: DC Movies Thread - In satin tights, Fighting for your rights

    They're legally obligated to cast Ed Asner as Granny Goodness.


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