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Thread: The "Shueisha" Thread

  1. #1381

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareem Said View Post
    Who cares about plot, when you have a ton of hot chicks and guys, am I right?
    Highschool of the Dead?

  2. #1382
    is Stolen Silence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareem Said View Post
    Bleach is basically one giant fangirl bait of a manga. And to make things even better (for Kubo) there's a large amount of hot, busty chicks to attract fanboys as well. Who cares about plot, when you have a ton of hot chicks and guys, am I right? That's basically the mentality behind Bleach's success.
    Basically.

    But, well, see, manga is just like any visual medium in that it doesn't necessarily have to have good storytelling to be good? I'm sure it's not lost on the JUMP readers that Bleach's plot is horrible and slapdash, but just because manga is manga doesn't mean it has to have a good plot. Just like a crossover between Wolverine, Batman, and Power Girl doesn't necessarily have to make sense or be well scripted to be interesting. I guess you could compare Bleach to a Michael Bay movie: mindless fun. ...Of course I don't find it fun. Or interesting. Or stylish. Or compelling in any way. So it's pretty much just mindless.

    But people don't read To Love-Ru for the plot.

    Thus even Bleach can be successful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.

  3. #1383

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    Basically.

    But, well, see, manga is just like any visual medium in that it doesn't necessarily have to have good storytelling to be good? I'm sure it's not lost on the JUMP readers that Bleach's plot is horrible and slapdash, but just because manga is manga doesn't mean it has to have a good plot. Just like a crossover between Wolverine, Batman, and Power Girl doesn't necessarily have to make sense or be well scripted to be interesting. I guess you could compare Bleach to a Michael Bay movie: mindless fun. ...Of course I don't find it fun. Or interesting. Or stylish. Or compelling in any way. So it's pretty much just mindless.

    But people don't read To Love-Ru for the plot.

    Thus even Bleach can be successful.
    Well, it's not like To Love-Ru really tries to hide that though.

  4. #1384
    S+ Rated Ghoul Kareem Said's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack View Post
    Well, it's not like To Love-Ru really tries to hide that though.
    Yeah it's even more annoying because Kubo pretends his manga is really "deep" when it has about as much depth as a bottle cap.
    My Hero Academia is my favorite manga series right now. At least so long as the high of its greatness remains. United States of Smash.

  5. #1385
    Mumblecore Gliblord's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    I thought the pure fangirl bait series in JUMP was KHR. Well, after Prince of Tennis of course.

  6. #1386

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliblord View Post
    I thought the pure fangirl bait series in JUMP was KHR. Well, after Prince of Tennis of course.
    I was thinking about what Amano could do after Reborn, and I think she should do an "american gangsta" series. It fits all the things she likes: wrinkly clothes, light gangster themes, useless women, and homoerotic subtext. Sounds perfect for her and her fanbase.

  7. #1387
    S+ Rated Ghoul Kareem Said's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliblord View Post
    I thought the pure fangirl bait series in JUMP was KHR. Well, after Prince of Tennis of course.
    Bleach is definitely up there.
    My Hero Academia is my favorite manga series right now. At least so long as the high of its greatness remains. United States of Smash.

  8. #1388
    is Stolen Silence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Bleach, Reborn, PoT, and D. Grayman have really high female readerships.

    For altogether obvious reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.

  9. #1389
    S+ Rated Ghoul Kareem Said's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    Bleach, Reborn, PoT, and D. Grayman have really high female readerships.

    For altogether obvious reasons.
    That last one I actually like, can't speak for the rest though.

    It has (IMO) at least some substance outside of being fangirl bait. And it actually does have a girl (Lenalee) who kicks major ass, which would partly explain the high reader base. Although you're right that most of its female fans probably come from ALLEN AND KANDA KAWAI!!!
    My Hero Academia is my favorite manga series right now. At least so long as the high of its greatness remains. United States of Smash.

  10. #1390

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    i've seen AllenXkanda an I don't want to remember that I did, but now I remembered **shudder**
    Member of Negima is Super Awesome
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  11. #1391
    S+ Rated Ghoul Kareem Said's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by GEPPETTOSMONSTER View Post
    i've seen AllenXkanda an I don't want to remember that I did, but now I remembered **shudder**
    There's also AllenxLavi and AllenxTyki Mick. Yeah who the hell needs a beautiful heterosexual relationship between Allen and Lenalee (which while not a sure thing, does seem like a feasible relationship) when you can have good old yaoi.
    My Hero Academia is my favorite manga series right now. At least so long as the high of its greatness remains. United States of Smash.

  12. #1392

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Exactly.

    Now that Lenalee's lovely twintails have been cut, who cares about her?

    In the meantime, there are still plenty of dashing sexy tophats to go around.
    Last edited by Dark Lord Zenigame; May 3rd, 2011 at 10:21 PM. Reason: but I still ship Road x Allen.
    この世に悪があるとすればそれは人の心だ。

  13. #1393
    What's wrong with you! IceBorg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Beelzebub is getting there in term of fangirls, for what I understand there are lot of yaoi sites out there for Beelzebub.

    And in Japan the most famous pairing is OgaxFuruichi.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    And I think Naruto is the worst because there are characters who are only high in the characters polls because of the yaoi (Iruka for example)

  14. #1394

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    But people don't read To Love-Ru for the plot.
    Well, I used to, (and that was 2 days ago, when I read the series for the first time) but now, not so much.

    And I know 2 Manga/Anime series that have even smaller plot than "To Love-ru" and 100% pure fanservice: Ikkitousen and Queen's Blade.

    Also, isn't "Yu Yu Hakusho" also has a lot of fangirls? I heard there are a lot more yaoi fanarts and doujins than straight or yuri.

  15. #1395
    is Stolen Silence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Yu Yu Hakusho had a lot of fangirls too, thanks to Hiei and Kurama, but was popular with guys as well, so it balanced out some.

    But honestly both Bleach AND Reborn are terrible series propped up largely by the lusts of prepubescent fangirls, and so they annoy me far more than any others could.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.

  16. #1396
    Mumblecore Gliblord's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    I don't know anything about KHR besides it's being blatant fangirl bait, could you explain why it's bad

  17. #1397
    Discovered Stowaway MarcelloF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by IceBorg View Post
    Beelzebub is getting there in term of fangirls, for what I understand there are lot of yaoi sites out there for Beelzebub.

    And in Japan the most famous pairing is OgaxFuruichi.
    Stupid japanese fangirls >=( It's totally AlaindelonxFurichi.

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  18. #1398
    is Stolen Silence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliblord View Post
    I don't know anything about KHR besides it's being blatant fangirl bait, could you explain why it's bad
    I've practically written... dissertations on why Reborn is awful over in the Reborn thread. I'll just rip one from over there (thanks Kareem!):

    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    Reborn is an abomination. I've read a LOT of manga of all kinds, and even in terrible ones I can find something to enjoy. But the only way I think Reborn could be worse is if it was a harem manga with loli pantyshots. Hibari and Yamamoto are the only redeeming features of this manga.

    Other bad manga, even Naruto (usually), take the time to set up and establish the absolute bare bones of the fighting system. In One Piece, you'll see Devil Fruits. You know well what their strengths and weaknesses are, or at least that there's a power out there somewhere to counter it. You know what to expect from the three types of Devil Fruits. In Naruto, there's chakra, 5 elements, and ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu, each with their own checks and balances to each other. In Hunter X Hunter, you have what is probably the best chakra system in all of shounen, in the form of Nen, which is extremely creative, extremely balanced, extremely complicated but at the same time makes perfect sense. There is a world, and when things happen in that world, there's at least some level of consistency within that world.

    I'm not sure whether I would agree that Reborn is worse than Bleach, but I would probably agree that it's at least as bad. Having started out as a gag manga for the first 60 chapters, Reborn went the route of becoming a battle manga, but unlike in all the other shonen series - it didn't have the benefit of all those chapters of establishment while you're still learning about the world. It just shoehorned things in. In many ways, it introduces plot points like Naruto part 2 does. Outta the fucking blue.

    So as a series, it lacks a lot of very basic building blocks and when you look at it, you see a lot of holes.

    What's worse, because the whole fighting system is sort of winged, battles become less about who fights the smartest or uses their ability to the utmost, but a complete writing crapshoot. The strongest characters will (literally) run into a brick wall (literally) and lose battles with no build-up. A fight could last 2 chapters or 6, and then a character (usually one of the protagonists) will inexplicably take a dive. In Naruto, you know shit is getting real when Naruto goes Kyuubi. Gear 2 means it's on, with Luffy. But in Reborn, a character using his latest power-up (and there's one at least every arc) will lose just as easily as if he hadn't at all - it's frustrating, and disjointed - and not at all unlike the war arc in Bleach.

    As a battle manga, it fails completely. Sadly, it isn't funny either: its concept of humor consisting of an [extremely annoying] baby making fart and poop jokes.

    The writing is just really bad. Unavoidably. It's not as bad as, say, Air Gear, but it wants to be. You can count the fights that have included more than 3 participants on one hand, but rarely are characters really indisposed, so you'll have an entire cast standing around providing extremely basic exposition for every fight and hammering you over the head with symbolism over and over and over again. Reborn! has no concept of "Show, Don't Tell," and so it is consistently unconvincing. Like remember how in Bleach, Kubo made a point of having Aizen predict everything down to what someone had for breakfast that morning? Know how it got to the point where plausible deniability went soaring out the window and no matter what was being written, you just couldn't believe it was being shilled as the truth because it was just too absurd? It's like that - only all day every day here in Reborn country.

    Characters say, "Gokudera-kun is so reliable desu" while your mind is shouting "bullshit!" because the character has literally won 2 fights and lost or pulled a draw in something in the neighborhood of 15 (not kidding). You may say to yourself "well it's good that the good guys lose sometimes, that doesn't happen often in other manga" but not so here, because even though more than half of the main cast is terrible 90% of the time, contrived plot twists and limp-dick writing always lead to the good guys winning and rainbows and sunny skies and fart jokes.

    Characters don't develop, Tsuna is probably the worst shonen protagonist I've ever read, and I've read a lot. He's everything that was ever conceivably bad about Usopp, whiny, and so constantly surprised you might think he was wandering through life on LSD.

    All this may seem a bit extreme to you. Maybe it is, idk. But I really haven't even broken it down yet. I haven't even TALKED about the absolutely random pokemon battles involving genjutsu sea slugs that were added to give "spice" to the plot. I haven't even TALKED about the Time Travel Ten Years Into the Future arc.

    If anything, my vehemence is a desperate plea for you to listen to the hyperbole for once, listen to the people who are trying to spare you the pain, just find a different mark, just find a different quarry.

    This manga aspires to do interesting things but bungles them all, resulting in a shounen where everything is half-assed and the other half is just ass.

    Stay away.
    tl;dr version: horrible fights, wretched, useless characters (including the most deliberately obnoxious character any manga I've read [he-who-will-not-be-named]), plotted like naruto p.2, only one or two good arcs in the entire series, potty humor, subtle-as-a-brick writing.
    good points are character designs (sort of), and anyone who actually ACTS like a mafioso, which is to say Xanxus, Squallo, Hibari, Yamamoto, and Reborn himself.

    It's just, really, really bad at everything it tries to do. BUT IT'S GOT PRETTY BOYS SO IT'S HERE TO STAY uguu~
    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.

  19. #1399

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    At last a group started scanning this series

    http://www.mangareader.net/sengoku-armors

  20. #1400

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    I find it funny how there are Bleach fans that decry One Piece because the women have huge tits.
    So we're just going to ignore Orihime, Rangiku, Yoruichi and the many other busty characters?

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