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Thread: The "Shueisha" Thread

  1. #6661

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Kishi hasn't been doing the bare minimum. If he wanted to he could have skimmed over the entirety of the war and probably ended Naruto a good 50 chapters ago. But instead he's stretching out this series and wringing it dry.

  2. #6662
    Some Sorta Bumhead, Surely Maxy B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Yes but my point with togashi is he hasn't officially cancelled the work, and does in fact return now and then to continue it, even if it's just for like... a two-part one-shot back in january. He appears to still have a passion for it (more so when you consider the tankobon redraws), even if he doesn't show it often.

    Perhaps I'm being picky on the accusation of works being called lazy, as it rings as if they just slobbed about doing it (ridiculous to think of in the face of how hard it is to create something, let alone with an example like this where we're talking about a weekly production). Something can be made without much care as to whether it works or makes sense, but the actual act of creating is still totally a conscious effort. But then I guess you're using it there as a sort of passionless or uncaring creative process, which certainly can happen, huh. not that I think Kishi's there yet. Though give it another year or two of this arc being dragged out and we'll see


  3. #6663

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Leg View Post
    Kishi hasn't been doing the bare minimum. If he wanted to he could have skimmed over the entirety of the war and probably ended Naruto a good 50 chapters ago. But instead he's stretching out this series and wringing it dry.
    It's because Kishi is stuck in a particular predicament:
    HE COULD end Naruto ASAP, but then that would mean he would be ending his (PROBABLY) most successful serie that he might not be able to replicate in the future (in terms of its success). Not to mention he is making BANK off of the serie so it would probably be in his best interest to stretch it as long as possible to keep the money flowing (since it still happens to be sitting high on the charts for some...odd reason). So regardless of whether he is bored with this serie or not (I'm guessing he is), he knows that he should keep Naruto going for that huge paycheck.

  4. #6664

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxy B View Post
    Yes but my point with togashi is he hasn't officially cancelled the work, and does in fact return now and then to continue it, even if it's just for like... a two-part one-shot back in january. He appears to still have a passion for it (more so when you consider the tankobon redraws), even if he doesn't show it often.

    Perhaps I'm being picky on the accusation of works being called lazy, as it rings as if they just slobbed about doing it (ridiculous to think of in the face of how hard it is to create something, let alone with an example like this where we're talking about a weekly production). Something can be made without much care as to whether it works or makes sense, but the actual act of creating is still totally a conscious effort. But then I guess you're using it there as a sort of passionless or uncaring creative process, which certainly can happen, huh. not that I think Kishi's there yet. Though give it another year or two of this arc being dragged out and we'll see
    Just saying Togashi is lazy isn't saying much. Yes, pretty much everyone agrees that Togashi goes on hiatus and doesn't refine some of his stuff that gets put in volumes.

    But that still doesn't mean that Kishimoto isn't being absolutely dreadfully lazy in how he approaches his artform.

  5. #6665
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    Of course Kishi gives enough fucks about producing volumes fast enough by putting out a sloppy chapter every week
    fixed that for you

  6. #6666
    The Album Guy Nobodyman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxy B View Post
    Yes but my point with togashi is he hasn't officially cancelled the work, and does in fact return now
    and then to continue it, even if it's just for like... a two-part one-shot back in january. He appears to still have a passion for it
    If he had a passion for it, he'd be churning out a chapter a week like everyone else. I'd say "interest" would be a more appropriate word. And a waning interest at that.

    (more so when you consider the tankobon redraws)
    Which he apparently doesn't even do anymore. LOL

    Perhaps I'm being picky on the accusation of works being called lazy, as it rings as if they just slobbed about doing it (ridiculous to think of in the face of how hard it is to create something, let alone with an example like this where we're talking about a weekly production).
    Again, we're speaking relatively. Yes, the work is there, but not the heart or effort.

    Something can be made without much care as to whether it works or makes sense, but the actual act of creating is still totally a conscious effort. But then I guess you're using it there as a sort of passionless or uncaring creative process, which certainly can happen, huh. not that I think Kishi's there yet. Though give it another year or two of this arc being dragged out and we'll see
    Yeah, I'd say that pretty much describes Kishi's work exactly.

  7. #6667

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post
    Kishi draws manly looking girls. This isn't really even debatable.

    http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/69/unavngivet51.png

    (the one on the left with the strong masculine jawline is the original)
    The one on the left (original as claimed) could be pulled off as an male/Deidara bro character.

  8. #6668

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Deidara was male?

  9. #6669

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    Deidara was male?
    16 character of Yes

  10. #6670

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    I kinda agree with both sides of the argument, just because the work has turned into shit, it doesn't necessarily mean he/she lost the passion or stopped caring... you know, they could just authentically lost the jazz.

    .... well, ok, excluding Togashi. Sorry bro, you can't use that as an excuse. You authentically don't give a fuck.

  11. #6671
    Discovered Stowaway Luxor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    ^ As much as we think (or know) it's turned to shit, there are unfortunately people who think that (1) it's still okay or (2) that shittiness is subjective...

    ...as if implying there was still reasonable doubt to believe Naruto is as good as, say, One Piece.
    3DS friend code: 1478-4380-6818
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  12. #6672

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    OK let's take a few series from my French comics shelves:
    Bilal, Tetralogie
    1 1998
    2 2003
    3 2006
    4 2007
    Ayrolle-Masbou, De cape et de croc
    1 1995
    2 1997
    3 1998
    4 2000
    5 2002
    6 2004
    7 2006
    8 2007
    9 2009
    10 2012
    Yslaire, Sambre
    1 1986
    2 1990
    3 1993
    4 1996
    5 2003
    6 2011
    7 and > ?
    Blain, Isaac le pirate
    1 2001
    2 2002
    3 2002
    4 2004
    5 2005
    6 ?
    Loisel, Peter Pan
    1 1990
    2 1992
    3 1994
    4 1996
    5 2001
    6 2004



    Can people who can't wait more than a year stop complaining please. Manga readers are spoiled to have 3 or 4 books per year for a serie and they don't even realise it.

  13. #6673

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    I think you're being a bit harsh there. Plus the 48 ish page hardcover which comes out once every sixth blue moon format of some French series isn't exactly a good thing to strive for. At all actualy.

    And yeah, to not be able to even do like 3-4 chapters withint 12 + months, seeing how others in the same magazine do somewhere in the area of 40 at least, is a bit, well, dickish,

  14. #6674

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    We don't care about your Frenchy Frenchness, French.

  15. #6675

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Where am I harsh ? Beside Sambre, it's typical release schedule by some of the most famous writers. And I'm not sure the crazy schedule of Japanese mangakas is something to strive for or consider as a due.
    And let's be honest the majority of us would do the same as Togashi in his place.

  16. #6676
    Some Sorta Bumhead, Surely Maxy B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Luxor View Post
    ^ As much as we think (or know) it's turned to shit, there are unfortunately people who think that (1) it's still okay or (2) that shittiness is subjective...

    ...as if implying there was still reasonable doubt to believe Naruto is as good as, say, One Piece.
    Dude, quality IS subjective. To think otherwise is to be super pretentious, like any one person's evaluation of a work is more valid than the next. Like... I take a series and try to deconstruct it's pros and cons in a fairly intelligent way, and look at the objective qualities present while I'm at it, but even with those objective elements in mind, the conclusion reached as to the quality of any given work is still ultimately subjective, because people aren't fucking robots now, are they.

    I'm not gonna be one of those awful fans who decries haters, because... I'm not a fan. More often than not Naruto has chapters that don't work for me lately, as is the norm for the end-game of any long-running manga I've read in the last... god knows how long. But I won't call the work shit either, because it isn't. There's a lot of craft in a series like Naruto, even when it stumbles. There's a reason it's so popular, after all.


    *looks at Kdom's post*

    *thinks about when Sky Doll last had new material (favourite euro comic!)*

    ... Yeah, fuck it, Togashi is SUPER productive in comparison to some (not that Barbucci hasn't been doing other work, but still)


  17. #6677

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kdom View Post
    Where am I harsh ? Beside Sambre, it's typical release schedule by some of the most famous writers. And I'm not sure the crazy schedule of Japanese mangakas is something to strive for or consider as a due.
    And let's be honest the majority of us would do the same as Togashi in his place.
    There are plenty of monthly manga artist, even bi-monthly, that does not have a crazy schedule, and draws FAR MORE than Togashi.

    And for bolded line, are you saying taking a year off every other year is a normal thing to do for working people?
    Are you like still in school? It doesn't seem possible to me that anyone who has ever held a job would even remotely think this is the case.

    WTH? I mean, I knew French don't like to work, but this is extreme even for them!
    Last edited by Aohige_AP; August 10th, 2013 at 04:48 AM.

  18. #6678

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Most people who can earn money without working would stop working. That's not being French or whatever that is being human. Togashi is not someone normal, he is a millionar married with another one and you tell me he should do as you and me. Is that a joke ?

  19. #6679

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Yeah every millionaires stop working once they earn that cash.
    Company CEOs and board of directors are fantasies, and neither should they ever be held accountable on their lack of productivity.

    Criticize a sports star for not showing up to the games? How dare you. You'd slack off on work if you had their cash!

    Solid logic.

    I swear, Togashi apologists posts seem to always have like the worst logic in the arguments ever.
    Last edited by Aohige_AP; August 10th, 2013 at 06:32 AM.

  20. #6680
    Discovered Stowaway Bigivel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxy B View Post
    Dude, quality IS subjective. To think otherwise is to be super pretentious, like any one person's evaluation of a work is more valid than the next. Like... I take a series and try to deconstruct it's pros and cons in a fairly intelligent way, and look at the objective qualities present while I'm at it, but even with those objective elements in mind, the conclusion reached as to the quality of any given work is still ultimately subjective, because people aren't fucking robots now, are they.

    I'm not gonna be one of those awful fans who decries haters, because... I'm not a fan. More often than not Naruto has chapters that don't work for me lately, as is the norm for the end-game of any long-running manga I've read in the last... god knows how long. But I won't call the work shit either, because it isn't. There's a lot of craft in a series like Naruto, even when it stumbles. There's a reason it's so popular, after all.


    *looks at Kdom's post*

    *thinks about when Sky Doll last had new material (favourite euro comic!)*

    ... Yeah, fuck it, Togashi is SUPER productive in comparison to some (not that Barbucci hasn't been doing other work, but still)
    Than you saying that everything is Subjective, because people aren't fucking robots? OK!

    You're comparing people in France, that have a manga industry where manga magazines don't even exist, less weekly manga magazines, and because of that saying Togashi is Super productive in Japan, other country?

    Unlike a lot of people think, quality and his "measurement" are objective, most of the times complex, but objective.
    A person take a set of well defined rules/standards to measure quality and go from work to work and quantify each one of them. That is normally how someone measure quality.
    What you're saying is that different people have different rules/standards for measuring quality, but that don't turn it subjective. Objective doesn't mean every people have the same opinion about it. I don't believe exists something in this world where everybody have the same opinion about.
    Subjective is people preferences and tastes. That is something personal and achieved through the sensations of the experience the person had with the work, not any kind of analysis.
    If a thing is subjective then when a group of people discuss it they talk how each one think about it(Subjective is centered on the subject/person). For example, when talking of the preferences of a series people ask each other what they think of the series, each other best parts, each other worst parts and how each one of them entered into that series.
    If a thing is objective then when a group of people discuss it they talk about how it stands without regards of any individual in the discussion(Objective is centered on the object/thing) . For example, when talking of the quality of a series, people talk about the good aspects of the series, the bad aspects, the things that are missing in the series, how the series treats some of his themes and events.
    Last edited by Bigivel; August 10th, 2013 at 07:19 AM.

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