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Thread: The "Shueisha" Thread

  1. #6281

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    Wait, I'm lost here. What bubble burst?
    Anime and manga. It went from an obscure thing in the back of a video/book store taking up a single shelf back in 1999, to something taking up entire sections of stores by about 2003. It had crazy growth and suddenly was a big new thing. Anime conventions went from attendence of 10,000 to 80,000. It's since shrunk back down to something closer to what its market can actually sustain, but there was a 2 or 3 year period where it had so much artificial growth that it clogged things up. The big publishers like Viz and Funimation managed to pull back and restrain themselves and are at a more reasonable pace... but there was a period of crazy ballooning.

    It only seems like it was gradual because it's already come on gone and you saw the effects in stores you regularly visited happen bit by bit, but to go from one row of one shelf in the back to an entire wall of a store in about a year is... just crazy. The pullback was similarly rapid, though obviously that excess stock had to be burned off so stuff sat on shelves for a while, so it wasn't quite as instant.

    And what is this? (after you just said let's not get into it, I know)
    Basically, after Tokyopop had already gotten all the cheap crappy manga they could, and had started pissing off their Japanese licensors (in a variety of ways. If you can think of a scummy way to do something, they were probably doing it. Lying about sales numbers, reneging on payment, printing titles they didn't actually have the rights to, having unpaid interns do the lettering, titles being sold only digitally instead of physical publication despite the contracts, selling diigtially when they didn't have the rights to, cancelling titles without warning, telling creators what to do, etc.... when Kodanchsa wants to cut all ties to you, well... ) they started trying to create an "Rising Stars of English Language Manga" (which Antarctic Press has been doing nearly 30 years, thankyewverymuch) .

    Their contracts were pretty much designed to take complete advantage of 16 year olds who had big dreams that didn't understand contracts. They had to produce entire volumes of work at a time (not a chapter at a time, and no assistants) would not be paid in advance at all and might not be paid upon completion, were subject to massive editorial, the actual pay was terrible, the advertising was bad, and Tokyopop kept all the rights to the product in perpetuity. They also had fans working as the editorial staff for free. (Sort of like if Jump's reader surveys were the ONLY editorial they had). They kept rights to the first volume of a project FOREVER.

    Basically, anyone in the industry blanched when they saw the contract and vented about it at length. Google "bad tokyopop contract" "Terrible tokyopop contract" or "awful tokyopop contract" and you can find a lot of responses to it, though the actual documents seem long gone... mostly since the company went under.

    I'd post a link to their horrible appalling contracts, but it seems to be dead now a couple years later, but one of their later contracts, and I swear I am not making this up or exaggerating in any way at all, this is just how it went to the best of my memory.

    Those editors at other companies are too old and boring, they don't get you! But we do! Who cares about stuffy fancy french terms like perpetuity and moral rights? We're too cool for junk like that! Give up your snooty French rights for the sake exposure! Sign with us and you can be rich and famous! We'll even chop your series up and put it onto cell phones and junk! That's free exposure for you, isn't that cool?
    I swear, no exaggeration on my part. Paraphrasing from memory 5 years later, sure, but no exaggeration.


    EDIT: Found an actual excerpt from one of their contracts still floating around in a comments section.

    MORAL RIGHTS” AND YOUR CREDIT
    “Moral rights” is a fancy term (the French thought it up) that basically has to do with having your name attached to your creation (your credit!) and the right to approve or disapprove certain changes to your creation. Of course, we want you to get credit for your creation, and we want to work with you in case there are changes, but we want to do so under the terms in this pact instead of under fancy French idea. So, in order for us to adapt the Manga Pilot for different media, and to determine how we should include your credit in tough situations, you agree to give up any “moral rights” you might have.”

    And, speaking of your credit, customarily we give you credit for your work as the writer and/or artist of the Manga Pilot. However, we may have to shorten or leave out your credit when the space available or the conventions of a format won’t permit it or if it would have to be too small to read (for example, when the Manga Pilot is viewed on mobile phones). You’re OK with this.
    I swear, no exaggeration on my part, not making that up, that is an exact quote. And the whole thing was like that, trying to be young and hip and the devil.
    Last edited by Robby; July 6th, 2013 at 05:21 PM. Reason: found an actual quote
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  2. #6282
    Mumblecore Gliblord's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post
    And the whole thing was like that, trying to be young and hip and the devil.
    Haha, WOOOOOOOW

    They... Did not do a good job burying the lead. Like, it's so transparent and phony that email scammers would blush

    Only SNOOTY PEOPLE retain their rights! Voltaire was a goddamn poser

  3. #6283
    Indiscriminate Grappler Gokuyuske's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    MORAL RIGHTS” AND YOUR CREDIT
    “Moral rights” is a fancy term (the French thought it up) that basically has to do with having your name attached to your creation (your credit!) and the right to approve or disapprove certain changes to your creation. Of course, we want you to get credit for your creation, and we want to work with you in case there are changes, but we want to do so under the terms in this pact instead of under fancy French idea. So, in order for us to adapt the Manga Pilot for different media, and to determine how we should include your credit in tough situations, you agree to give up any “moral rights” you might have.”

    And, speaking of your credit, customarily we give you credit for your work as the writer and/or artist of the Manga Pilot. However, we may have to shorten or leave out your credit when the space available or the conventions of a format won’t permit it or if it would have to be too small to read (for example, when the Manga Pilot is viewed on mobile phones). You’re OK with this.
    I don't even...this is as stupid as it is evil.

  4. #6284

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    I really wish one of those contracts was still floating around the internet in its entirety. Just the pure EVIL, and lack of understanding what the base wanted, seeping off the page, it was amazing.

    Kind of like Microsoft and the XBone 180.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  5. #6285
    Discovered Stowaway BlackPirate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post
    I really wish one of those contracts was still floating around the internet in its entirety. Just the pure EVIL, and lack of understanding what the base wanted, seeping off the page, it was amazing.

    Kind of like Microsoft and the XBone 180.
    A link to the contract:
    http://web.archive.org/web/200809151...08-Feb-01).pdf

    Bryan Lee O'Malley's comments about the contract:
    http://web.archive.org/web/200809151...om/180842.html

  6. #6286

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post


    EDIT: Found an actual excerpt from one of their contracts still floating around in a comments section.



    I swear, no exaggeration on my part, not making that up, that is an exact quote. And the whole thing was like that, trying to be young and hip and the devil.
    Could a contract written in such a non-formal way even hold up in court ? I mean there has to be a point where your contract becomes too.....terribly written to be valid.

  7. #6287

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPirate View Post
    A link to the contract:
    http://web.archive.org/web/200809151...08-Feb-01).pdf

    Bryan Lee O'Malley's comments about the contract:
    http://web.archive.org/web/200809151...om/180842.html
    This is it. This is, hands down, the single most cartoonishly evil thing I have ever encountered outside the bounds of fiction.

  8. #6288

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPirate View Post
    Awesome. Great find.

    Man, its even more cartoonishly evil than I remembered.

    I especially like the part that says "If there's any problems, YOU pay for the lawyers."

    "By the way, this is customary in legal contracts. It's not something we just dreamed up."

    "If we do anything to make money with your product, anything at all n any shape, form or medium, we keep 100% of the profit."

    "If you have a problem with us, please don't say anything or report to any blog or comic news sites. Or else they might report that we're being evil."

    "If you have a problem with anything, let's sit down and talk about it first (figuratively. We might talk on the phone.)"


    There's just page after page after page of them going "yeah, we're horribly exploiting you, please don't tell anyone. We also expect lots of legal problems, but it's totally not because we're doing anything wrong. You're cool, you're totally agreeing not to have those with us, right?"
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  9. #6289

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    I'm forced to assume that everyone involved with drafting that contract looked something like this:

    Spoiler:



  10. #6290
    Discovered Stowaway BlackPirate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by No Maam View Post
    Could a contract written in such a non-formal way even hold up in court ? I mean there has to be a point where your contract becomes too.....terribly written to be valid.
    I found these answers:

    "Words scribbled on a napkin can be a legally-binding contract. The more vague and 'hip' the language is, the more its vagueness favours the party with the bigger legal budget. In this case, TP."

    "Yup, alas, if the document states that it is a legal document, it can be written in urban English. As long as both parties sign, it's fully legal and binding. And if you sign it, you're screwed."

  11. #6291

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPirate View Post
    What? They call it a Pact? Like a suicide pact or something? Sure seems that way.

  12. #6292

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    The new manga by Toriyama is going to be only 10 chapters long, so 1 volume

  13. #6293

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    The new manga by Toriyama is going to be only 10 chapters long, so 1 volume
    And no one is surprised.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  14. #6294

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPirate View Post
    A link to the contract:
    http://web.archive.org/web/200809151...08-Feb-01).pdf

    Bryan Lee O'Malley's comments about the contract:
    http://web.archive.org/web/200809151...om/180842.html
    did these mofos ever got any hit series...?

  15. #6295
    Bisoromi Bear Game And Guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC


    You are on a quest to become the Pirate Prince, and you decide your fate!

  16. #6296
    Some Sorta Bumhead, Surely Maxy B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    i live in hope that tokyoop is never forgotten for how balls-out shitty they were, and that no moron ever replicate their ways.


  17. #6297
    Lurking since 2007... Nidhoeggr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    This is the most hilarious contract I ever read. And I study politics.
    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu, The Art Of War



  18. #6298

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Normally they don`t want you to read the fine print..here they were so clever to print it in the normal size.
    UnrevealedVegapunk/Ryokugyu/Loki/Rocks/Im-san
    IslandElbaf/Raftel/GodValley
    UnresolvedWeevil´s plan/Explaining DFs/Deal with Kuma-Bonney´s past/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan
    DFWind/Metal/Wood/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop

  19. #6299

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    and they said it's fun (seriously)...

  20. #6300

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    seems like tokyopop is trying to make a come back, according to wikipadia

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