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Thread: The "Shueisha" Thread

  1. #5061

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by gordanham View Post
    And no. You are treating all your opinions as cold hard facts.
    Fuck you. No.
    You want me to list One Piece polls and sales? How the fuck is that my opinion?

    Only opinion I've been saying are: "things haven't changed as much as you think" and "short lived series are shitty". And I've been providing the following facts to back WHY I have these opinions.

    Number of cancellations, frequency of canellations, whether or not series have run as long as the old days, how much they are allowed to run before cancellations, how consistent counts of new titles and manga artists to come and go has been....
    These are not my opinions. These are facts.

    So yes, continue your shitty crusade to label everything as opinions.
    Just another argument where the loser who has nothing to back him degenerates into "but it's just all opinions!" garbage.

    I have... provided examples to back anything I've been saying.
    You have done nothing but point fingers, label, and insist on "opinions".
    I've done my share, you're hopeless.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Hisoga View Post
    is Ultra Red mentioned by Aohige before a manga by Kongo Banchou and Nanatsu Taizai's mangaka?
    Yeah, it was a good manga. Extremely violent, and takes fight scenes very, very seriously.
    Alas, it didn't fare very well, and unfortunately ran at a time when the Editor in Chief was a serious cut-throat, and got the shaft.
    In the end, him moving to Sunday was a good thing though.
    Last edited by Aohige_AP; February 18th, 2013 at 11:21 PM.

  2. #5062

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Aohige_AP View Post
    Fuck you. No.
    You want me to list One Piece polls and sales? How the fuck is that my opinion?

    Only opinion I've been saying are: "things haven't changed as much as you think" and "short lived series are shitty". And I've been providing the following facts to back WHY I have these opinions.

    Number of cancellations, frequency of canellations, whether or not series have run as long as the old days, how much they are allowed to run before cancellations, how consistent counts of new titles and manga artists to come and go has been....
    These are not my opinions. These are facts.

    So yes, continue your shitty crusade to label everything as opinions.
    Just another shitty argument where the loser who has nothing to back him degenerates into "but it's just opinions!" bullshit.

    I have... provided examples to back anything I've been saying.
    You have done nothing but point fingers, label, and insist on "opinions".
    I've done my share, you're hopeless.
    Wow. Ok.
    You realize that before I agreed with all of your facts.
    I am saying that I think based on those facts it wouldn't survive,
    you are saying, that based on those facts, it is a fact that it would survive.

    I asked for your opinion. But you just wanna shove your opinion as fact down my throat :(
    Think of the hypothetical children. Won't somebody please think of the hypothetical children.

  3. #5063
    Some Sorta Bumhead, Surely Maxy B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Hisoga View Post
    is Ultra Red mentioned by Aohige before a manga by Kongo Banchou and Nanatsu Taizai's mangaka?
    It is! It was... Flawed. Read it if you want to see Nakaba's early stuff. Rising Impact more so.

    EDIT: ugh, Aohige is faster than me. but yes, Nakaba's better off in sunday


  4. #5064

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Except, you know, it's a hypothetical children to you.
    I was fucking there, I was one of them. It ain't hypothetical children, they were my PEERS.
    Although not exactly a child anymore, still young.

  5. #5065

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Aohige_AP View Post
    Except, you know, it's a hypothetical children to you.
    I was fucking there, I was one of them. It ain't hypothetical children, they were my PEERS.
    Although not exactly a child anymore, still young.
    Ok. Thank you. You just admitted to projecting onto these children. Yes. You were there. But you weren't them.
    You can only give you own opinion. Not their's.
    Thank you for winning the argument against you, yourself.
    It is always great when someone proves themself wrong.

  6. #5066

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Can you please provide anything to back your opinion, or are you going to continue spouting garbage?

    As for projecting, no SHIT. If you actually bothered to READ, I said, we're both projecting to the general Jump audience, mine backed by figures and personal experience, yours backed by only your gut feeling.
    1. What you are doing is ASSUMPTION based on your own personal opinion projected on others.
    2. What I'm doing is ASSUMPTION based on cold hard figures, projected observation on others.

  7. #5067

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Thanks Aohige and Maxy.. saw that manga in the chinese magazine (like WSJ) long time ago but don't know its name because i can't read mandarin..haha

  8. #5068

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Aohige_AP View Post
    Can you please provide anything to back your opinion, or are you going to continue spouting garbage?
    There is plenty of it in the previous pages.
    You probably couldn't read it over that huge movie projector hitting stobing everyone in the face. What movie projector. You know. That annoying one that just shows up in you house sometimes and sits on your computer. It can't possibly be a metaphor or anything.

  9. #5069
    Some Sorta Bumhead, Surely Maxy B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by gordanham View Post
    There is plenty of it in the previous pages.
    You probably couldn't read it over that huge movie projector hitting stobing everyone in the face. What movie projector. You know. That annoying one that just shows up in you house sometimes and sits on your computer. It can't possibly be a metaphor or anything.
    Real talk, at this point, no matter how Aohige's behaving, this is where I can see you're just being a needless arsehole. Work at saying something of value instead of bickering or just be quiet for a bit, because it's completely bloody tiresome.


  10. #5070

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by gordanham View Post
    There is plenty of it in the previous pages.
    You probably couldn't read it over that huge movie projector hitting stobing everyone in the face. What movie projector. You know. That annoying one that just shows up in you house sometimes and sits on your computer. It can't possibly be a metaphor or anything.
    Only thing you have ever presented to support your claims were assumptions.
    You don't even realize you are also projecting to the children, and point fingers, when in fact we both are.
    And for the third time, I have been doing everything to present you what supports my claims. You on the other hand, have not.

    So you degenerate into <insert above post>, without even bothering to fight with evidences.
    I'm obviously wasting time if you're not going to make any constructive attempts.

  11. #5071
    Indiscriminate Grappler Gokuyuske's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by gordanham View Post
    Thank you for winning the argument against you, yourself.
    It is always great when someone proves themself wrong.
    You realize you're just being a dick here right? Don't post to "win" arguments and insult other users. If you are posting make sure that what you write adds to the conversation in some way.

  12. #5072

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Aohige_AP View Post
    Only thing you have ever presented to support your claims were assumptions.
    You don't even realize you are also projecting to the children, and point fingers, when in fact we both are.
    And for the third time, I have been doing everything to present you what supports my claims. You on the other hand, have not.

    So you degenerate into <insert above post>, without even bothering to fight with evidences.
    I'm obviously wasting time if you're not going to make any constructive attempts.
    Not that I don't want to keep making constuctive attempts, but you see, I do, and then you ignore them, and then you want me to repeat them, just after repeating yourself to you to prove my point about what you actually did say, and it is just redundant and one-sided.
    That fact that you don't think I gave any support even shows that this debate has been pretty one-sided.
    If you actually go back and read and say you found nothing, then I would be happy to continue and point it out.

  13. #5073
    Some Sorta Bumhead, Surely Maxy B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    When everyone in the room calls you an alcoholic, lie down.


  14. #5074

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    ............................................. orz

  15. #5075

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    That's not fair, and besides it's not a contest of who has the last post.

    I was kinda thinking TOC of 1997~ would be kinda neat to post.

  16. #5076
    Some Sorta Bumhead, Surely Maxy B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    It's actually a pretty interesting year even if you throw One Piece aside, from what I'm seeing.


  17. #5077

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Gokuyuske View Post
    You realize you're just being a dick here right? Don't post to "win" arguments and insult other users. If you are posting make sure that what you write adds to the conversation in some way.
    Um......Thank you?
    I really appreciate that you made sure to delete the part where I added to the converstion and then called me a "dick" even though he already conceded to that one thing at least.

  18. #5078
    The Tetsuo Ishimaru of AP Gizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    It's really a pet peeve of mine when people just don't bring up the evidence/facts that support their claim when someone asks for them. Hence why I'm doing this so some b.s. such as "people are too lazy to look up my arguments won't fly anymore.

    So here's gordanham's args.

    1st arg
    Spoiler:

    Quote Originally Posted by gordanham View Post
    As already previously stated, Jump is currently at its peak success with the number of units its combined series can sell surpassing 8 million. 5.5 million of those comes from battle manga alone.
    To my knowledge, that certainly isn't how Jump was when One Piece started, or even ever.
    I don't understand why it is hard to understand the concept of oversaturation.

    And besides that. I am also trying to point out the difference not just in the number of units sold, but the length of the current series themselves. There are currently 3 battle series past the 50 volume mark. People have literally grown never known a world without some of these series. It is a completely different climate.

    Aaron also been doing a good job about clarifying that THIS IS JUST ABOUT BATTLE MANGA. That is what this question is in regards to.
    So given these facts, one piece wouldn't do well today.

    Here's Aohige's answer to that too in a way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aohige_AP View Post
    If he claims "One Piece first chapters were shit, so it wouldn't fly today", that's basically saying that because it DID fly back in 1997 and snagged the top spots as soon as publication started, Rurouni Kenshin, Jojo's Bizzare Adventure, Houshin Engi, etc... all must be even SHITTIER.
    We all know that's not the case.
    and here's a list of all the series in jump BTW.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ōnen_Jump


    The second arg
    Spoiler:


    Quote Originally Posted by gordanham View Post
    I was just saying that I feel those first chapters wouldn't cut it with the generation reading Jump now.
    I am sure everyone who sent in those surveys for One Piece when it first came out are still enjoying the series today, but realistically, they probably never send them in anymore, and I think it is even safe to assume that a good chuck of them don't even read it in Jump anymore.
    Something like people's opinions have changed, the people of today wouldn't vote the same as back then. NOT an actual fact supported by evidence, but your argument nonetheless, unless you have something proving that tastes have changed since 1997 to 2013.

    Aohige's answer is One Piece has been in the top 3 since it's debut in chapter 9. Technically, not backed up with physical evidence either, but I think it's fair to say that he's correct. Either way though, I think the fact that One Piece did survive proves people cared about it.


    So it's your burden gordanham to prove the correlation between the oversaturation of One Piece, Bleach, and Naruto and decline in interest in battle manga and that it isn't the same as the environment that One Piece was in while it was first published.

    Aohige could try to prove the opposite though. Show which long running series were in Jump in 1997 and try to show off their sales/volume #s at the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwing
    Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what hes lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?

  19. #5079
    Mumblecore Gliblord's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Or, you know, who cares

  20. #5080

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Well, to be honest, I don't argue that due to narrower margin of pages available, it's tougher for a battle manga to take up space.
    However, it comes down to "if it's really good enough, that kids will like, it will be given a chance to prove itself".

    This has never changed. Ever.
    And vast, vast, majority of these short-lived battle manga were just as crappy as the ones that got canned quickly 20 years ago. None of that has changed either.

    And despite having OP/NARUTO/BLEAH taking up place, we STILL had battle-titles that exceeded in serialization length some of the most cherished classics, proving that battle manga, in fact, are given more than fair chances.

    Basically, if OP was able to satisfy kids who were enjoying Jojo and Kenshin, it would fly well today.
    I mean look at the opinions you guys often express on Assassination Classroom. A lot of people are puzzled by its success, but I could see it coming a mile away. I even predicted it'll do more than 100k on the first volume, and hit the mark.

    I think it's pretty safe to say I'm a lot more "relate-able" towards the Japanese audience, don't you think?
    I've been observing the manga market for decades too.

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