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Thread: The "Shueisha" Thread

  1. #2641
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    All I want to say Jack kept Enigma around for what, four or five volumes with the same sales. So they might not cut it down right away.

  2. #2642

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    ^If "well it's going against long running series" is your argument, check the last post. I edited it.

    Enigma lasting this long means the editors are giving her a chance.
    The fact she's married to Jump editorial's favorite gag artist (who was guaranteed a spot in the magazine for decades despite poor sales) probably helps a lot. :P

    If she doesn't improve though, she'll get cut. Unless they continue with the favortism.

  3. #2643
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    It's more of "well even current long running series didn't start that well" rather than "well it's going against long running series". Only Bakuman from an already popular duo did some 150 000 thousand on it's first book. Toriko sold ~70 000, Beelzebub and Medaka Box sold ~50 000. However... ah, I'm done. I don't care that much for Magico. I cross my fingers for ST&RS whenever its first trade comes out.

    And I know Enigma's mangaka is Usuta's husband, mentioned that on last page.

  4. #2644

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Huh. Is Sket Dance always this up-and-down?

  5. #2645

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverblade View Post
    It's more of "well even current long running series didn't start that well" rather than "well it's going against long running series". Only Bakuman from an already popular duo did some 150 000 thousand on it's first book. Toriko sold ~70 000, Beelzebub and Medaka Box sold ~50 000. However... ah, I'm done. I don't care that much for Magico. I cross my fingers for ST&RS whenever its first trade comes out.
    No you see, those examples actually goes against your point.
    Toriko had a good start, but Medaka and Beelzebub struggled. Medaka faced many potential cancelation, and it had to change its style to start competing.
    That's exactly what I'm saying. At this rate, Magico and Enigma face cancelation, unless they manage to improve one of the two criteria.

    Nura, Medaka, and Sket Dance managed to do so. That's why they survived.

  6. #2646

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Is there a Beelzebub chapter this week? Im going crazy just to find even the smallest spoiler :S

  7. #2647
    S+ Rated Ghoul Kareem Said's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    I find it interesting how people complain about this "Shonen Jump Hierarchy of Long Running Series" consisting of One Piece, Hunter x Hunter, Naruto, Bleach, Gintama, Reborn, Toriko, Bakuman, Beelze... Oh Wait! Those last three aren't particularly long running. Or at least not nearly as long running as the other six. Yet they're considered some of Jump's best and brightest current series. What I'm getting at here is people are complaining about how too much emphasis is placed on the older series (a complaint I can understand to a point) and how newer series can't ever succeed under the totalitarian, iron hand of Shueisha's permanent hierarchy!

    Except Toriko, Beelzebub and Bakuman were able to succeed and become part of this so-called hierarchy themselves. Why? Because they were really interesting. That may be a bit of a subjective statement (though few on this forum would argue) but whatever the case those series captured the interest of the Japanese manga-reading public, gained high volume sales and anime adaptations and by this point are pretty much set to last their entire run, regardless of how long that may take.

    And btw. 2010 may have been a very disappointing year for new series in Shonen Jump, and 2011 looks to be turning out just as bad, if not worse, but they are by no means the only poor years in the magazine for new series. 2006 was also a drought year. The longest running series was freakin' To-Love Ru and that didn't even last all that long. Also in 2003 Buso Renkin was the only series that managed to last into 2005 where it was then cancelled. And there's plenty more those are just the really notable ones.

    Thing is, while many series get cancelled because of Jump's climate, it's kind of a blessing as well as a curse. It promotes a survival of the fittest climate where only the most interesting series survive. And I think we can pretty much all agree that Toriko, Bakuman and Beelzebub have been forces of good throughout their runs. St@rs and Magico just weren't as interesting or exciting straight away compared to those other series. It's a shame but it's how the magazine works and it works for them, and I'm sorry if you don't like it, but deal with it. It's not going to change.

    And St@rs and Magico aren't over yet! If the authors of those series can improve the rankings or the volume sales, then they survive. Simple as that. If they can't. Then they can't. Simple as that.

    I'm going to wait until we have three years of no long lasting series before I start to complain about how Shueisha does their business.
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  8. #2648

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Magico is a series I want to love, and I really liked it at first, but the breathless pace is just too much. The main character started out far too strong, and the character designs are really hit-and-miss. I wouldn't mind if it continued, but I'd understand if it gets dropped.

    Enigma started out strange, got really interesting, but then kinda fell apart at the end of the first arc. Not surprised it's down at the bottom. That one can go.

    and ST&RS... it's pretty good, but it isn't really exciting. Maybe because it's too realistic?


    All in all... I don't think we're losing anything truly great if any of these get cancelled. I think overall Jump's method works. I do think that only picking your top 3 is a little hash, though. A series that is consistently 4th for everyone will look like nobody likes it at all. But having a detailed 1-18 ranking each week is too much for the average reader to bother with. Maybe if they did a detailed ranking every month or so? idk.

  9. #2649
    I Have Returned Davy Jones's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    If anything, we should get rid of Fairy Tail! It's simply porn. And Japan shouldn't promote porn.
    America do your thing.

  10. #2650

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Fairy Tail's pretty lightweight compared to some of the other cheesecake-heavy series out there. (not to mention it's owned by a different company entirely)
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  11. #2651

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Davy Jones View Post
    If anything, we should get rid of Fairy Tail! It's simply porn. And Japan shouldn't promote porn.
    America do your thing.
    wrong magazine, plus fairy tail has really good ratings so its canning is very very very very very very unlikely

  12. #2652
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    I just came in here to say

    Silverblade deserves a fucking standing ovation for that post.

    The nature of JUMP is to be competitive. It's the most popular magazine in Japan. There are plenty, plenty, of other magazines for mangaka to try their hands at if they aren't interested in the kind of pressure that JUMP artists are under.

    Either you cut it, or you don't.

    Sometimes this means series you like get canned, but more often it means series that aren't that great don't stick around long. Good. There might not be a new Beelzebub or Toriko every year, but this system ensures that there can be.

    I would much rather see substandard series get canned then be allowed to clog up the magazine with mediocrity for a few years. The next One Piece may not be right around the corner, but if it weren't for JUMP's fierce vetting process, would there be room for it if there were?
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  13. #2653

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    I would much rather see substandard series get canned then be allowed to clog up the magazine with mediocrity for a few years. The next One Piece may not be right around the corner, but if it weren't for JUMP's fierce vetting process, would there be room for it if there were?
    The question is, would there be room for it with the voting in place ?

    Because I kinda have my doubts as well.

  14. #2654

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by No Maam View Post
    The question is, would there be room for it with the voting in place ?

    Because I kinda have my doubts as well.
    Sure why not? The voting system hasn't changed since the beginning of WSJ.





    One Piece started 1997 and ranked really well from the beginning. Granted, It did have less competition (in the battle shonen genre) than it would have had if it would start now. Only an extraordinary Series (shonen battle) would survive such harsh environment and the next One Piece would have to be an extraordinary series. There is a bigger chance to discover the next One Piece in such en environment than in a friendlier environment. There are other magazines out there that arenít so harsh. If the next Oda doesnít like it in WSJ he could easily change magazines. Great Series will reach a great status also in another magazine. The best recent example would be Shingeki No Kyojin, which the author tried to get published in WSJ but got rejected because it wasnít WSJ like. They wanted him it to change the style of it to fit better in WSJ but he said no and went to another magazine and got serialized and reached Bleach status in 4 Volumes alone from mouth to mouth propaganda.

    Bottom line, the next One Piece will be the next OP because it will be an excellent series and therefore will survive even the harshest environment

  15. #2655
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    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Its true that the ranking system worked really well during the last years, but imo something changed. All the long running series in WSJ made their way through this system, but compare the pacing of these mangas during their first 30 chapters with the new series. During the last two years i got the impression that all new mangas were forced to have a fast pacing and thats bad, cause that ruines mangas which could evolve into something amazing. I really don't care much about Magico, Enigma or ST&RS, perhaps Magico would be better with a slow pacing who knows. The only victim of this whole ranking system i really liked was Oumagadoki and this manga had pontential.
    Naruto is so cool it has 600 billion naked Zetsus with armadillo penises dancing under an rainbow.

  16. #2656

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Stunned that Death Note was never higher than it was.

  17. #2657

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Deathnote was all about volume sales.
    Its appeal was older demographic than the usual WSJ voters (largely composed of little boys who want prizes).

    Older readers tend to not send in any votes, but instead show support by consumption.

  18. #2658

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Aohige_AP View Post
    Regardless, with the shoddy figures they have on both the polls and the sales, BOTH of those series are in serious danger of cancelation if they don't improve at least one of the two factors. So saying "well at least it sells better than Enigma" doesn't mean much, as both of them are on the chopping block. I mean, come on, it's a frigging WSJ comic and it sold less than BTOOOM! for god's sake. Aoha Ride running in Margaret (Shuueisha's shoujo magazine) just hit volume 2, and it's at 26,466 / 218,250. There's just no excuse for a manga running in the MOST POPULAR MAGAZINE IN JAPAN to hit this low. If I was the editor, I'd tell the authors get ready to pack up already.
    I wonder. Does Margaret (Shuueisha's shoujo magazine) also has a t.o.c. based on popularity?

  19. #2659

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    Jump is the only known system that is stricktly almost poll based.
    Sunday is actually the opposite, and long running, stable popular manga tends to actually go towards the back of the magazine, giving newer manga a chance to shine towards the front of the magazines.
    Shounen Magazine is mix of polls, volume sales, and promtions.

    Not much are known about the shoujo manga magazines.
    It's speculated though, that the other shuueisha magazines (such as Margaret) do have poll based system, but perhaps not as dominating factor as WSJ.

  20. #2660

    Default Re: Weekly Shonen Jump TOC

    I like how when Dragon Ball started it dominated the rankings and then a few years of other stuff and then One Piece comes along and dominates in its place .


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