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Thread: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

  1. #1
    "Shocking, isn't it?" PirateBeck's Avatar
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    Default The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Noticing that fans over here dislike the fact that Kaizoku Fansubs edited the 116th episode of One Piece, I posted this over at K-F.

    "For many years now, we as fans have watched the 200+ episodes of Kaizoku Fansubs, well, fansubs of the anime series of One Piece. They have given us much enjoyment, making us care and love a series about the adventure of a loveable group of pirates. However, the group who brought us so much fun aren’t actually all that fun themselves. In revelation of the upcoming Season 2 Fifth Voyage box set to be released by American licensing group FUNimation, they need to come clear on some well hidden facts about their Alabasta releases.

    They edited the episodes themselves.

    Now we all know that they have made edits to the video selection in the past, so that the opening and ending video sequences would be free of their Japanese credits (although why this is also disgraceful will be touched upon later). The edits they have made, while possibly having done other episodes in the series, are most notable in the final 20 episodes of the Alabasta arc. The first edit is correcting “Arabasta King Dom” to “Arabasta Kingdom” (snapshot below). While this doesn’t affect releases too much, it’s a simple little era that didn’t need to really be corrected and if you look closely at the cap, you’ll notice the letter ‘s’ has been stretched and the part after ‘Dom’ has been poorly edited so that it’s actually quite comparable when looking at the two releases.

    However, the one that caused this whole debate is on episode 116, during the Bon Clay vs. Sanji fight. After Sanji and Mr.2 perform a barrage of kicks against each other, they cough up blood… only if you following the Kaizoku Fansubs release. In the original TV Broadcast/DVD release, the two characters actually cough up spit and saliva. After Sanji performs a devastating kick to Mr.2’s face, the same edit happens again. You may argue that this was done for consistency, since they had bled earlier in the fight but after they cough up ‘blood’ and stand up in your fansubbed version, notice that a drop of spit is still hanging out of their months. You call that consistency? Also, notice in the screen caps I have made below that in one frame when Mr.2 was spinning around that the ‘blood’ wasn’t blurred, like everything else in the screenshot. Considering that was just a repeat spinning shot of the character flying through the air, surely that would have either happened every time this one frame came up? For you see, it leads to the only possible conclusion that these episodes have been edited by non other than Kaizoku Fansubs themselves.

    Now dear viewer, you may wonder why I am making such a compliant against this fantastic group of individuals? “Isn’t adding more blood a good thing?” you say, with your bloodlust ever increasing while watching this heart thumping fights. No my friend, it is not the blood itself, rather the principal. A fansub is supposed to be what it says on the tin, a ‘fan sub’, NOT a ‘fan edit’. This is going against the principals of what a fansub is aiming for and by adding blood, you’ve done, although arguably a more violent kind, EXACTLY what the company we all used to hate, 4kids did.

    To me, a fan of the original, it doesn’t matter how you back up your reasons, you made an edit to the source material, something which no other group has done. Fans will gather up in groups and complain to FUNimation, saying they’ve edited the episodes down and therefore, not purchase the legal and amazing release.

    But of course, you would enjoy that. For some strange reason, you seem hell-bent on re-releasing the first 10 episodes of One Piece despite them not only being able to purchase for a minimum of $20 these days but are also available for free on FUNimation’s own website. Mato is an excellent translator who, just like you, has done his own fan translations of material, the notable Mother 3 for example, which everyone who has played it has enjoyed. Now I understand that Dythim has gone back and re-translated the first 10 episodes, which is somewhat understandable since they were taken from the Hong Kong bootlegs. You can tell it's taken from this release due to the logo in the top righthand corner at the start of episodes 1 and 10 and from the darker colour palete, which was due to the way it was re-encoded for those DVDs. This by the way fans is also a reason why the episode previews aren’t included in your fan subbed release because they didn’t have access to them. These releases only included previews for episodes 10, 19 and 27. Other fansubs, which started later didn’t have this problem and thus included them. However, as stated before the legal and perfectly fine release has been out for over 18 months now so why do you need to re-release these episodes in this format now? It just seems silly, espeically when fans want the newer episodes more than something that's already released many times around the world now.

    To get back to the main point however, you also edited the end of episode 128 to include Family. I am more loose on this one since it may have aired on TV but only in Japan, since I can’t find it on any other international or DVD release of the series. Speaking of songs, why is it on your openings and endings, you never type up the Japanese credits for the actors or the ACTUAL staff who made this possible, rather than just yourselves? It seems somewhat disrespectful, especially when you went out of your way to edit those out of the episodes and used clean ones instead. These credits were typed up for the CD Releases so why not for the episodes themselves?

    This isn’t even going into the issue of using words like ‘Nakama’, ‘Oi’ and ‘Yosh’, which can all be easily translated into English ‘Comrade’, ‘Hey’ and ‘Alright’. These are words I have heard used in many other anime series and they NOT been given the exculsive name treatment there. An example of a word that is actually used within a certain untranslated context is Rurouni Kenshin's 'oro', which while it could of been translated from Italian to 'gold', wouldn't have worked since it was used as Kenshin's way of questioning the events that happen around him. Now to be fair to a user of K-F forums, 'Oi' is an english slang word used to call someone over. However, I am still unsure that this is also an AMERICAN word, since it doesn't appear in the Singapore Dub and don't think the FUNimation Dub either. The term translation means ‘to translate’ something which you seemed to somewhat have forgotten during your experience of the show.

    Now to state an important point, I do NOT hate this group entirely. Their translations are still, apart from the weeabooisms, top notch these days and they did release the OVA, something which I believed they were involved in getting the file for. They have also been the longest running fan group for One Piece and I have to respect their dedication to the cause. However, their recent suggestions and through the revelation of the edits made to episode 116, I am a little disgusted with what they done.

    Now to make a perfectly sane suggestion, I believe that they should still keep their older episode up online but only until the episodes get a domestic release in America. Some fans may want to get a look and what is coming soon and I believe Kaizoku can still be useful in that way. There isn't any reason to have the first 103 episodes avialable online, especially to even think of re-doing the first ten. FUNimation has not stopped you from subbing and I believe they may understand that you were once a great part to our community.

    I remember once when you said you stop subbing once someone licensed the series and treated it right. I guess that this was all just a lie since you are still continuing on. But hey, what should expect? You are called KAIZOKU FANSUBS after all!

    Images referenced in the above paragraphs posted below:
    Spinning Mr.2
    The unblurred blood
    Arabasta King Dom vs. Kingdom"

    Since posting this, I have learned that people at Kaizoku miss the point of your agruement entirly, say you hate something when you've said many times you don't and call you an awful troll. Yes because insulting me will win you marks.

    If you want the shorter version, all I want K-F to do is admit that they edited the episode since FUNi will be releasing it correctly uncut soon and I didn't want a war to start over something so pointless. People at K-F don't realise that.

    So I want your opinion on the matter. Do you think its wrong of a fansub group to edit an episode, which is something no other group has done to the actual episode in this manor. You can even call me 'a troll for hating fansubs' if you want (I don't hate fansubs, I just wanted something to be corrected), just please post your own opinion here or there. Thank you for your time.
    Last edited by PirateBeck; December 24th, 2009 at 07:30 PM.


  2. #2

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Well, i remember a lot of people noticed the change at the time of the episode release and there was a relatively big fuss over it. IIRC a few members were even banned from their forum for complaining, while others welcomed the edit. But i think they never really admitted it.

  3. #3
    "Shocking, isn't it?" PirateBeck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by goty View Post
    Well, i remember a lot of people noticed the change at the time of the episode release and there was a relatively big fuss over it. IIRC a few members were even banned from their forum for complaining, while others welcomed the edit. But i think they never really admitted it.
    So basically, i've taken every arguement, placed it into a very well written essay that you can't make a single strong arguement againist and they would still hate it?

    Well I welcome the war that will be had once people have bought the fifth voyage and if people complain over K-F, I will say I told them why this is the case :P


  4. #4
    POE WUN BGR Greg's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    EGX and I noticed it when it first came out and brought it to everyone's attention but...does it matter? I don't think anyone even goes there anymore. Just let it die in peace.

  5. #5

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    About the credits, at least, I believe the story behind that is that up until a certain point, the Japanese DVDs actually included creditless and lyricless versions of the openings and endings as an extra or such, and that's where those're coming from, not some home editing project (aside from the splicing, naturally).
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  6. #6
    Great sage,equal of heaven Darkstorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Ha ha ha.

    Someone has far too much time on their hands.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    EGX and I noticed it when it first came out and brought it to everyone's attention but...does it matter? I don't think anyone even goes there anymore. Just let it die in peace.
    This.

    Yeah, it is a little strnge to edit a fansub the way YOU want it to be edited but again, that is their choice and we all have the option to not watch what they produce (I know I don't anymore). I do think you are taking this to a disturbingly high level. It really isn't that big of a deal.
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  8. #8
    "Shocking, isn't it?" PirateBeck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Crossword View Post
    About the credits, at least, I believe the story behind that is that up until a certain point, the Japanese DVDs actually included creditless and lyricless versions of the openings and endings as an extra or such, and that's where those're coming from, not some home editing project (aside from the splicing, naturally).
    I know that's where they are coming from, other releases like Ouran do it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstorm View Post
    Ha ha ha.

    Someone has far too much time on their hands.
    I wrote this in 40 minutes. I've wasted far more time on much stupider things. I just felt strongly about the issue and it came out quite naturally.

    To answer the question of why this should be taken somewhat seriously, hasn't almost every fan seen this version of these episodes and not the original RAWS? If people complained over the 1 second Zolo in the eyecatch during the first two voyages, they will complain about this. I just wanted to stop that from happening and have the source correct the problem.
    Last edited by PirateBeck; December 24th, 2009 at 04:40 PM.


  9. #9
    Great sage,equal of heaven Darkstorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    1) Nobody cares.
    2) Nobody who buys the dvd will remember the blood from SIX YEARS AGO.
    5) Nobody cares.

    Also,

    -"Oi" has been english slang meaning exactly the same as it does in japan for as long as I've been alive.

    - It's silly that they changed the blood, but if you're expecting more then 4 people to be horrified beyond imagining, then you're going to be waiting a long time. Nobody cares.

    -Dythim retranslated the early episodes ages ago, I remember a post from him on the topic as he wanted to do them as they were an embarrassment to him. And he doesn't need to use another translation to "check".

    You should have let this die in the funi thread.

    Also, did I mention that nobody cares.

  10. #10
    POE WUN BGR Greg's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    hasn't almost every fan seen this version of these episodes and not the original RAWS?
    I could see the problem if this scene was being used in a landmark thesis on blood in Japanese animation but, it's just the choice by some pretentious fansubbers. Nothing new there.

    BTW, they did admit it. They said it was in order to match the manga. Which is a STUPID reason, but what do you expect from them? They actually expect people to watch their subs with dozens of other fansubs, speedsubs, YouTube and the instant FUNimation subs online.

    If I were them I'd have slit my internet wrists long ago but they've been rooted in the ground so long they're practically Ents. Just let them die in piece updating the site even though no one reads it anymore.

    Like gamesarefun.

  11. #11

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    The thread doesn't come up when I click on the link anymore... did they delete it?

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  12. #12
    "Shocking, isn't it?" PirateBeck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstorm View Post
    1) Nobody cares.
    2) Nobody who buys the dvd will remember the blood from SIX YEARS AGO.
    5) Nobody cares.

    Also,

    -"Oi" has been english slang meaning exactly the same as it does in japan for as long as I've been alive.

    - It's silly that they changed the blood, but if you're expecting more then 4 people to be horrified beyond imagining, then you're going to be waiting a long time. Nobody cares.

    -Dythim retranslated the early episodes ages ago, I remember a post from him on the topic as he wanted to do them as they were an embarrassment to him. And he doesn't need to use another translation to "check".

    You should have let this die in the funi thread.

    Also, did I mention that nobody cares.
    Yes I get it, no one cares. I was just interested in a fully condensed opinion in one place. I forgot that 'oi' is used worldwide and I didn't know that Dythim retranslated them ages ago. This can be closed if people want, I don't mind. I just assumed that fans, being the way, would complain. Maybe I am right and maybe I am wrong we'll see in a month.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    The thread doesn't come up when I click on the link anymore... did they delete it?
    I guess these means they can't admit it. Ah well, people will hide behind their flags.


  13. #13
    POE WUN BGR Greg's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    In a month KF will still be making excuses for why a new episode hasn't been released and people will still visit the site for crossbones pictures of merch.

    Meanwhile people here will be rocking the fuck out.

  14. #14
    of The One Piece Podcast Zach Logan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    We talked about it on the podcast today for a little bit, it brings up some very interesting and inane arguments!
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  15. #15
    Great sage,equal of heaven Darkstorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    We always rock the fuck out.

  16. #16
    POE WUN BGR Greg's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    We always rock the fuck out.
    Yes we do. Yes we do.

  17. #17

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    I agree with almost everything you said here TGPK, but we're at a point where K-F is just sort of petering along, under some delusion that they're better than Everyone else including FUNi, and most of these mistakes happened EPISODES ago.

    We just need to advertise that the Mr. 2 Blood thing was all them, so that when the DVD comes out we don't have the few bitchers and moaners who will definitely complain (I mean, people complained about the Logo and the Fraction of a second "Zolo" eyecatch thing, we will get some complainers)
    And even if we do have a Few bitchers... WE know the truth, so we can just laugh at them.

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  18. #18

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    They added blood?!!! Awesome!!!

    @OP...Your are just overreacting. Seriously, I don't see anything negative at all. And the family song at the end of 128 was one of the best things (If it's really an edit), I still watch that episode because of it.
    Although it's a shame there is no credits in most of the episodes since they are using the credit less version. (I like to check the key animators list).

    I can't find myself complaining about a group that subbesd OP from the beginning, if it wasn't for them, then I might not have been a One Piece fan in the first place. So yeah, they can do whatever the hell they want, cause I don't care.

  19. #19

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by XMURADX View Post
    They added blood?!!! Awesome!!!

    @OP...Your are just overreacting. Seriously, I don't see anything negative at all. And the family song at the end of 128 was one of the best things (If it's really an edit), I still watch that episode because of it.
    Although it's a shame there is no credits in most of the episodes since they are using the credit less version. (I like to check the key animators list).

    I can't find myself complaining about a group that subbesd OP from the beginning, if it wasn't for them, then I might not have been a One Piece fan in the first place. So yeah, they can do whatever the hell they want, cause I don't care.
    I don't think he wants to slight them (not entirely at least)
    The point I got out of this was that he wanted them to just make a news post of some kind on their website owning up to the edits so that when FUNimation gets to those episodes, we don't end up with a flood of people going "What the HELL?! Mr. 2 and Sanji should be throwing up Blood!! FUNIMATION EDITED IT THE BASTARDS!!"

    Hell, Bon Kurei has ALWAYS been called a "Ballerina" and his back has ALWAYS said "Bon Kurei" in the anime, that was censorship on Toei's part. But when FUNi first did episode 92. my YT comment page on that clip was flooded with "His Back should say 'Crossdresser'! FUNi Edited it!!" comments. Not to mention the fact that people somehow noticed the 2-frame "Zolo" eyecatch thing and complained about THAT too. People like to complain, and I think TGPK just wanted to curve some of that by having K-F own up to the edits they made. You said yourself that you LIKE that Family clipshow they put together. Well, some fans might think it was originally supposed to be there and will get pissed when FUNi doesn't include it.

    And I know you might LIKE the added blood, but it's still an Edit that wasn't there in Japanese. It was also particularly poorly done, as they didn't recolor all of it and it changes from saliva to blood to saliva a few times. It's still presuming you know better than the people who made the show and editing things to be the way YOU think they should be.
    I personally think Oda screwed up in the Arlong Arc. When Nami asks Luffy "Luffy... Help Me..." and he puts his hat on her head, I personally think the scene should have stopped there and should have gone right to him walking up to the others saying "Let's go". When he shouted right after that, I REALLY thought that killed the Drama of the scene, it would have been so much better if he'd just given her the hat and walked off in silence, the simple act of giving her the hat spoke volumes on it's own.

    Do you see me editing the scene to remove the awkward shout? No, because that's part of the scene. But if I DID go and do that, I wouldn't call the scene a "Fansub" I'd call it a "Fanedit".

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  20. #20
    "Shocking, isn't it?" PirateBeck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by XMURADX View Post
    They added blood?!!! Awesome!!!

    @OP...Your are just overreacting. Seriously, I don't see anything negative at all. And the family song at the end of 128 was one of the best things (If it's really an edit), I still watch that episode because of it.
    Although it's a shame there is no credits in most of the episodes since they are using the credit less version. (I like to check the key animators list).

    I can't find myself complaining about a group that subbesd OP from the beginning, if it wasn't for them, then I might not have been a One Piece fan in the first place. So yeah, they can do whatever the hell they want, cause I don't care.
    Okay I have to agree that I liked the added Family and maybe I am overacting a little but like I suggested, its the principal of calling themselves fansubbers, which they technically aren't. If they can add credits for themselves in, they can take the time to add in the credits for the people involved who were actually involved. I wouldn't have brought it up if no one other group did it but the people who sub Conan do. Considering that show is very dialouge heavy and the opening/ending themes change every 10 episodes, I have nothing but respect for them in that regard.

    I also still thank K-F for fansubbing One Piece and still think their translations are top notch but now that their time has passed, shouldn't they own up for this? I would have more respect for them if they did.

    Rin, thank you for posting the above. That's the exact message I wanted to get across and I am very glad that you to understand the points I try and make. :D
    Last edited by PirateBeck; December 24th, 2009 at 06:42 PM.


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