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Thread: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

  1. #41

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wintergt View Post
    I wish more fansubbers would add blood where it is supposed to be. It would make the current ID arc more realistic too.
    Lol, that episode of Bleach was just on TV tonight where Ichigo and Orihime are fighting Yami and when he hits them, huge rivers of saliva come pouring out of there mouths.

    I never even read the manga and I could tell that was edited for TV. :p

  2. #42
    Discovered Stowaway MarcelloF's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Why do people even care? If you don't like the editing, don't watch it. And about the credits not being there: So what? Do you really watch them? I always just turn videos off when the credits come.

    BTW, someone said everyone has watched Kaizoku episodes. I never have. I live in Germany, so we had access to the series since 2003...

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  3. #43

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcelloF View Post
    Why do people even care? If you don't like the editing, don't watch it. And about the credits not being there: So what? Do you really watch them? I always just turn videos off when the credits come.

    BTW, someone said everyone has watched Kaizoku episodes. I never have. I live in Germany, so we had access to the series since 2003...
    You know, for awhile, it was really hard for many english speakers to watch the series in english, due to the simple fact that K-F was the only group really working on the series at the time, as well as the only official availability was the hackjob then. Sure, people could watch the raws, but a majority of individuals don't understand Japanese that watch the series.

    Also, like me, some people like to read the credits to see who exactly worked on each individual episode. I also like to see how many people work on each episode, in regards to the animation. I actually find it a little disrespectful not to keep the proper credits for each episode and solely focus only on the fansubber names. It's sorta one thing if that's all you have to use due to the fact there's no good rips going around with the op/ed, but they had access to the credits then. They should've either kept them if they were unable to do a full translation or re-translated from the individual episodes and applied it to the textless footage.

    I am thankful they did the series up to the point that they did, but now that I look at it at a different aspect from when I originally watched it, my opinion has changed then. I realize this is a rant, but... You know, that's how I feel now and have for quite some time. K-F isn't the only group I'm a little irritated in regards to this, so it's not simply restricted to them.

  4. #44
    Lazy as hell zullzero's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcelloF View Post
    BTW, someone said everyone has watched Kaizoku episodes. I never have. I live in Germany, so we had access to the series since 2003...
    They kinda mean everyone who reads English and not German. A lot of people know that there's been at least one group doing German subs since the start.

    Anyway, that aside...

    If K-F had been hacking up, say, every third or fourth episode, then yeah, I'd think that was weird. I honestly have no idea why they hacked up one episode that wasn't really even the best ep of that arc. Maybe it was seen as a protest of sorts against 4-Kids at the time, I dunno. I had been watching K-F since well before that episode's release...and of course, I didn't download the German subs or the raws to compare because my Deutsch is horrible and my Japanese is worse.

    K-F, back then, were kind of more laid back about their release quality. They weren't exactly doing it to be "professional" and generally, they were just having fun with it. No one else really came along and did really high quality subs for very long, just looked like too much trouble...and besides, K-F's weren't too bad, even back then. It wasn't until later (not coincidentally, when they started falling really far behind) that they got serious with their translations and tried doing something as professional as they could. The only line in the sand they drew back then was the whole "nakama/honorifics" thing, which wasn't really a big deal to everyone for a long time, but then kids decided to beat it to death because it was apparently uncool. If it were a big deal, you'd think there would have been alternative sub groups, but that didn't happen. There was a lot of opportunity to do the episodes a whole lot better back then, but apparently K-F was doing it well enough for everyone...until lately, when everyone has become horribly obsessed with details for an anime that has basically been licensed and translated.

    I guess the sword cuts both ways...if you don't like K-F's or whoever's subs, go buy the official ones. You can call K-F "scumbags" for not following through with their promise to stop their subbing when reasonably good quality subs finally did get produced by the license holder, but "good" is really a matter of perspective. They may not really think the subs are all that great. I know I've been kind of underwhelmed by the official funi subs so far. If you were all that concerned about things being done officially, you'd not care at all about what K-F does because you'd be out buying those official subs.

  5. #45
    Lazy as hell zullzero's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiGoku View Post
    I am thankful they did the series up to the point that they did, but now that I look at it at a different aspect from when I originally watched it, my opinion has changed then. I realize this is a rant, but... You know, that's how I feel now and have for quite some time. K-F isn't the only group I'm a little irritated in regards to this, so it's not simply restricted to them.
    Huh. Only thing I look back at and wonder about is why no one else bothered to really make a serious attempt at putting out an alternative to K-F. Oh, that's right, because K-F wasn't bad enough to warrant an alternative. There were plenty of fans back then, and plenty of fansub groups looking for projects like always...but they decided that K-F had it well in hand.

    The problem was the company that licensed the series didn't produce a worthwhile official English subbed alternative for almost a decade. K-F was just providing a free service, and it's their right to do that free service any way they see fit. If they felt like recoloring every episode, then that's their right. If fans didn't like it, they wouldn't have watched...and bam! There would inevitably have been an alternative group subbing the show. That's just the way it works. No need to bash a group (or any group), just decide not to watch their subs. If you're right, then lots of people will join you and a group will fold. People don't sub a show if no one downloads...that's basically what keeps them going. That, and complements.

    That all said, K-F's later episodes are pretty well done. If you take the official ones and stand them up against K-F's, you can't deny that K-F put a whole lot more work into them. They just almost never release anything anymore.

  6. #46

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Forgetting the fact that we were never ranting about K-F in total, I believe the point of the thread was asking K-F to own up to the edits they made so that nobody will bitch when FUNimation gets to the Bon Clay fight and sees Saliva.

    But forgetting that, K-F are FAR from being better quality than FUNimation's DVD Subs for the simple fact that, the Official subs don't have distracting KARAOKE effects where they don't belong, they translate things that SHOULD be translated like "Nakama" and they have a reasonably consistent release schedule. None of this "Wait a month or two and maybe we'll start releasing episodes again for a little bit". Not to mention I've yet to see a single mistranslated line of dialog, and 95% of the attacks are correct, the only ones that haven't been A FEW minor characters who only use their attacks once or twice (like Kuro). And during THOSE episodes, K-F were FAR WORSE. They translated "Gomu Gomu no Kane" (Gum Gum Bell) as "Gomu Gomu Iron Headbutt".
    And that isn't even Episodes 1-10, that was ep 14 I think.
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  7. #47

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    But forgetting that, K-F are FAR from being better quality than FUNimation's DVD Subs for the simple fact that, the Official subs don't have distracting KARAOKE effects where they don't belong, they translate things that SHOULD be translated like "Nakama" and they have a reasonably consistent release schedule.
    That's a bit like complaining Citizen Kane sucks because it is black and white. I was just casually following the one piece anime back then, but KF was a real godsent, high quality, not only translation-wise but also visually/encoding. The alternative for the earlier episodes was only hong kong bootlegs, talk about horrible. After a while KF got behind though, I believe the reason was not that they are slow, but rather that they used DVDs instead of TV rips (which came out later). So to stay up to date you had to follow other subbing groups like gerusama (only name I remember), who also followed suit in not translating nakama, doing karaoke effects (which I thought was pretty damn cool at the time), etc. And I'm pretty sure the whole translation purism of not wanting to see a japanese term is only a recent evolution. There are still some episodes in my OP collection (I think around davy back arc) that fell in a void where you had to download some random fansubber with horrible video quality and unintelligable translations, made you really appreciate the top notch job KF always did.

    I wonder how many people posting in this thread directly or indirectly work for funimation.
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  8. #48

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    I never said "K-F had terrible Quality" I just said FUNimation is way better.
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  9. #49

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    I wonder how many people posting in this thread directly or indirectly work for K-F.

  10. #50

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    This thread is good. It should be archived to be an example for future generations.
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  11. #51

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    I never said "K-F had terrible Quality" I just said FUNimation is way better.
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  12. #52

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fdein View Post
    Oh come my way~
    And, your point is?
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  13. #53

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    They are the reason I'm an OP fan, and I still check their site once in a while to see if a new episode is subbed. Without K-F I would have never watched OP because I only watch a series when a decent fansub subs it.

  14. #54
    POE WUN BGR Greg's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    If they felt like recoloring every episode, then that's their right. If fans didn't like it, they wouldn't have watched...and bam!
    Yeah see, this would have been the case.

    iiiiif they actually mentioned, "Oh by the way, we tweaked this."

    Which they didn't. Until they got called on it. And even then they didn't comment until people started speaking up.

    There's a difference between being the only 'good thing in town' and thinking you can do whatever you want and fans should eat it up because you're the only good thing in town.

    That and their inability to accept criticism to this day.

  15. #55

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    I think you're just being an asshole they just didnt feel like fucking telling you :O It'd just cause problems. a few hundred episodes later you suddenly care?
    It seems this kind of editing was still a far while back ago and i dont see any new edits for the last hundred or so episodes. I don't think people are even fucking appreciating them enough.
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  16. #56

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fdein View Post
    Oh come my way~
    Don't even try. Every single inconsistency piling up on Funi's subs every week is always "Toei's fault" after all

  17. #57
    YOU ARE BAND! Throes's Avatar
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    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ThegreatPirateKing View Post
    Now we all know that they have made edits to the video selection in the past, so that the opening and ending video sequences would be free of their Japanese credits (although why this is also disgraceful will be touched upon later).
    Actually no, since K-F uses DVDs as the source material, each DVD comes with a clean opening and closing song, which means they have no credits. K-F simply used those in lieu of the versions with credits.

    The edits they have made, while possibly having done other episodes in the series, are most notable in the final 20 episodes of the Alabasta arc. The first edit is correcting “Arabasta King Dom” to “Arabasta Kingdom” (snapshot below). While this doesn’t affect releases too much, it’s a simple little error that didn’t need to really be corrected and if you look closely at the cap, you’ll notice the letter ‘s’ has been stretched and the part after ‘Dom’ has been poorly edited so that it’s actually quite comparable when looking at the two releases.
    Is there really anything wrong with correcting the word "Kingdom" on a sign seen momentarily? I fail to see how this is wrong.

    However, the one that caused this whole debate is on episode 116, during the Bon Clay vs. Sanji fight. After Sanji and Mr.2 perform a barrage of kicks against each other, they cough up blood… only if you following the Kaizoku Fansubs release. In the original TV Broadcast/DVD release, the two characters actually cough up spit and saliva. After Sanji performs a devastating kick to Mr.2’s face, the same edit happens again. You may argue that this was done for consistency, since they had bled earlier in the fight but after they cough up ‘blood’ and stand up in your fansubbed version, notice that a drop of spit is still hanging out of their months. You call that consistency? Also, notice in the screen caps I have made below that in one frame when Mr.2 was spinning around that the ‘blood’ wasn’t blurred, like everything else in the screenshot. Considering that was just a repeat spinning shot of the character flying through the air, surely that would have either happened every time this one frame came up? For you see, it leads to the only possible conclusion that these episodes have been edited by non other than Kaizoku Fansubs themselves.
    One can easily make the argument that K-F was simply attempting to release a more-accurate adaptation of the manga, while Toei Animation animated coughing up saliva over a more graphic coughing up of blood.

    Now dear viewer, you may wonder why I am making such a compliant against this fantastic group of individuals? “Isn’t adding more blood a good thing?” you say, with your bloodlust ever increasing while watching this heart thumping fights. No my friend, it is not the blood itself, rather the principal. A fansub is supposed to be what it says on the tin, a ‘fan sub’, NOT a ‘fan edit’. This is going against the principals of what a fansub is aiming for and by adding blood, you’ve done, although arguably a more violent kind, EXACTLY what the company we all used to hate, 4kids did.
    While you have a point in saying that Fan Subs should leave the original material alone, I would hardly compare what K-F did to what 4kids did. K-F attempted to release an episode that was a more accurate adaptation of the manga. 4kids on the other hand chopped up episodes, made edits to further soften the material present in the anime, completely replaced meaningful dialog with utter nonsense, and replaced original music with their own in-house beat bops.

    And as far as K-F rereleasing the earlier episodes, I believe that they shouldn't bother, they should respect the fact that a reputable adaptation has been released, and stop distributing episodes available legally for free online, or on DVD shelves.

    At this point I expect someone to bring up the fact that due to licensing, the online versions aren't available in some countries, which would be the argument for K-F rereleasing older episodes, and I don't see to big of a problem with that, but if you are in regions of the world where the episodes are available legally for free, you should be encouraged to support those legal versions instead of the pirated versions.

  18. #58

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fdein View Post
    Oh come my way~
    I was talking about the DVD Subs.

    the Simulcast has your occasional typo and some meddling from Toei.

    Quote Originally Posted by goty View Post
    Don't even try. Every single inconsistency piling up on Funi's subs every week is always "Toei's fault" after all
    Uuuh... yeah, we actually have confirmation from Mato that Toei are fucking around with the script... and then there's some stupid inconsistencies like the fact that FUNi translated "Okama Kenpo" as "Crossdresser Kenpo" in Movie 8, and they translate "Okama" as "Queer" in the simulcast when it's said alone, but as "Oh Come My Way" when he mentions "Okama Way". I'm PRETTY DAMN SURE if FUNi were doing this alone, they'd do what they did for Movie 8.

    But seriously, way to call out the Simulcast Subs even though I've already said quite a few times in this thread that the DVD subs are the ones that I'm talking about.

    @Throes and pretty much everyone else yelling at us:

    Are you guys just ignoring EVERY SINGLE TIME we mention what Pirate King actually intended here?!

    Again, I say this for the 1000th time. This thread's intent wasn't to go "FUCK K-F, they can go choke on a dick".

    The aim of this thread was to try and get K-F to just make a news post that said "We added blood to the Mr. 2 Vs Sanji fight, it wasn't originally there" so that when those episodes come out, we don't end up with a flood of people bitching about how FUNi "Edited" it.
    And before anyone says "Nobody will complain", remember, the "Zolo" eyecatch only appeared on screen for like 2 milliseconds, and people still noticed and bitched up a storm about it. People WILL notice this.

    So again, Slighting K-F wasn't the intent of this thread, the intent was to just get them to own up to something that, as Greg said, they refused to own up to IN THE FIRST PLACE until they were drilled about it.

    And Greg had a really good point, they don't take criticism well AT ALL.
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  19. #59

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    And before anyone says "Nobody will complain", remember, the "Zolo" eyecatch only appeared on screen for like 2 milliseconds, and people still noticed and bitched up a storm about it. People WILL notice this.
    I'm failing to understand why they would? I heard nothing about it since i joined this forum. That's not an argument but TGPK was the only one who brought it up since i came here. Why would users around the world suddenly bitch about that old episode?
    Besides everyone with common sense knows why did that and K-F is (i assume) well aware of that. Should every futility be commented and discussed for pages?

    And if they do bitch. Why the fuck is that your problem or TGPKs? Are you part of the K-F team or what?


  20. #60

    Default Re: The confession that K-F should make! The truth that must be told!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MagneticMonkey View Post
    Why would users around the world suddenly bitch about that old episode?
    ...... you DO realize the Sanji Vs. Mr. 2 Fight is about to be released on the newest FUNi DVD right? The idea isn't to stop people from bitching about K-F, it's to prevent them from bitching about the FUNi DVD.

    Because K-F edited it to include Blood, the FUNi DVD will obviously have saliva since that's what's supposed to be there.

    People like to bitch about things on FUNi's DVDs like that one time the Eyecatch Said "Zolo" for a fraction of a second, and if people believe the blood is what's supposed to be there, then when the FUNi DVD hits in like a week, we'll have a backlash of people who will think FUNi actually made a "Censorship" edit.
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