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Thread: Star Wars Universe - Resurrection F

  1. #1901
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    Default Re: Star Wars Universe

    Quote Originally Posted by MajinArekkusu View Post
    How many ships followed the rebels? They couldn't have had some of them jump forward and block their path?
    Aren't the ships going at full speed though? I'd generally expect a motorboat to move faster than a battleship, at the cost of having less fuel.


    Spoiler:

  2. #1902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    Aren't the ships going at full speed though? I'd generally expect a motorboat to move faster than a battleship, at the cost of having less fuel.
    FO ships can jump to light speed to cut them off.
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  3. #1903
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    I guess Iím joining the light side

    I loved the movie. Was it perfect? Nope. But the sheer amount of gut-wrenching moments and the whole rollercoaster of emotions definitely landed for me.

    I havenít read through the thread so I donít know if these points have been commented on, but:
    Spoiler:

    -Overall I guess I kinda enjoyed Luke because nostalgia, but imo most of the time he seemed more Mark Hamill than Luke. The fact that he almost decided to murder his nephew? I believe it could fit his character. Luke wasnít some saint overlooking peopleís faults all the time, and I believe he could have wavered a moment in deciding whether he should protect the galaxy from what he deemed was a rising dark force. That Kylo was basically born at that moment is pretty tragic, honestly. Thereís no apologizing to your apprentice for something like that.

    -I enjoyed Kylo a lot. Learning about his past complicated his character a lot, which I consider a good thing. Not firing on his mother? That was a touching moment. I admit Iím a sap for redemption and I wanted him to come back. The team up fight scene was glorious. But alas, he, at his core, is a power-hungry broody boy, so I think Iím the end itíll still be Rey vs. Kylo, despite the spark between them.

    -Leia. Fuck. The scene of her floating in space had me fucking torn up ďomg is this how theyíre going to do it?!?! D:Ē but no.. she .. forceíd her way back aboard. It was weird. Also that she still lives at the end of the movie was another punch in the gut. How are they going to handle the next movie?

    -Rey... I dunno Iím torn about her. I guess Iím okay with her except that she had like 3 non-lessons and suddenly sheís like floaty rocky Mcgee. Also kind of eager for the delicious drama incoming because of Finn

    Otherwise not specific but also very noteworthy: there were SO MANY GOOD MOMENTS. Like very subtle humour that flashed by that had me laughing like an idiot. The overly-dramatic background warrior seemed to make a comeback in the red power rangers scene. Quick pan of those dudes and some guy unnecessarily flails around his spear thing and my husband and I looked at each other and died laughing bahaha.

    So many other good moments but Iíve been dragging on already. I wanna see this again!
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  4. #1904
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    Default Re: Star Wars Universe

    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    Spoiler:
    -Rey... I dunno I’m torn about her. I guess I’m okay with her except that she had like 3 non-lessons and suddenly she’s like floaty rocky Mcgee.
    Spoiler:
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I only remember Rey being taught two lessons. I believe she left before Luke could teach her the third.

    Spoiler:
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  5. #1905

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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    -Rey... I dunno I’m torn about her. I guess I’m okay with her except that she had like 3 non-lessons and suddenly she’s like floaty rocky Mcgee.
    You can say the same about Luke in the original trilogy though. Sure, he obviously did a bit more training off camera, but of what we saw?

    -He did oneblindfolded training with Kenobi before they got to the death star and Kenobi died. (And from that he was then able to hit the key weakpoint on the death star.. after hitting wamp rats all the time without realizing that was hard)
    -He tried to lift a rock, couldn't, and then Yoda showed him how to lift a ship.
    -He went against Yoda's warning and went into the evil cave, then abandoned his training for his friends.
    -Jedi starts and suddenly he's a jedi master despite Yoda dying?

    We can maybe infer that some significant time passed between films, but... As far as practical onscreen training Luke had one lesson, a couple speeches, and a couple failed practices. Rei is working with about the same amount of training time.
    Last edited by Robby; January 2nd, 2018 at 12:24 PM.

  6. #1906
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    You can say the same about Luke in the original trilogy though. Sure, he obviously did a bit more training off camera, but of what we saw?

    -He did oneblindfolded training with Kenobi before they got to the death star and Kenobi died. (And from that he was then able to hit the key weakpoint on the death star)
    -He tried to lift a rock, couldn't, and then Yoda showed him how to lift a ship.
    -He went against Yoda's warning and went into the evil cave, then abandoned his training for his friends.
    -Jedi starts and suddenly he's a jedi master despite Yoda dying?

    We can maybe infer that a couple years happened between films, but... as far as practical onscreen training Luke had one lesson, a couple speeches, and a couple failed practices. Rei is working with about the same amount of training time.
    I guess that’s true. I guess what I’m saying is.. I WANTED A TRAINING MONTAGE D:

    The pace of the movie suggested she only had like a few mins of training with her master.

    It’s okay tho. I’ll accept this into my head canon:

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    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Spoiler:
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I only remember Rey being taught two lessons. I believe she left before Luke could teach her the third.
    Spoiler:
    Yep, I think you’re right. Maybe her.. mirrors scene could have counted as a self-taught lesson. Maybe.
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  7. #1907
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    Default Re: Star Wars Universe

    A lot of the movies do the young hero's level up half-assed.

    It's easier to just rush the plot and call them a prodigy.
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  8. #1908

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    Its possible after Empire Luke went back to Yoda, trained for a year or two, then went on the Jabba raid, and then went back to Yoda a third time to complete his training only for Yoda to die, but... that has to be imagined to explain things. I don't think that's ever said explicitly. (or how much time actually passed between Empire and Jedi.)

    From what we actually know, he never really got any real actual training in with Yoda.

  9. #1909
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    Default Re: Star Wars Universe

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Its possible after Empire Luke went back to Yoda, trained for a year or two, then went on the Jabba raid, and then went back to Yoda a third time to complete his training only for Yoda to die, but... that has to be imagined to explain things. I don't think that's ever said explicitly. (or how much time actually passed between Empire and Jedi.)
    Even that I find hard to believe because A) I don't think they would leave Han hanging that long (maybe a month or two at most), and B) If Luke did go back to train with Yoda, I would think he'd bring up Darth Vader being his father before the events of ROTJ

  10. #1910

    Default Re: Star Wars Universe

    Phantom Menace
    v
    10 years
    v
    Attack of the Clones
    v
    3 years (the entirety of the Clone Wars show)
    v
    Revenge of the Sith
    v
    19 years (some of that being the entirety of Rebels)
    v
    Rogue One
    v
    About fifteen minutes
    v
    A New Hope
    v
    4 years
    v
    Empire Strikes Back
    v
    6 months
    v
    Return of the Jedi
    v
    30 years, a prequel trilogy, an okay Tartakovsky show, a great CG show, a good CG show, and Mark Hamill defining himself as an evil clown
    v
    Force Awakens
    v
    'bout five minutes
    v
    Last Jedi

  11. #1911
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    Default Re: Star Wars Universe

    Luke still had way more training than Rey ever had and didn't willy nilly lift countless boulders, used mind tricks immediately and beat a sith who trained FOR YEARS even with injuries applied.
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  12. #1912
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    Default Re: Star Wars Universe

    Worth noting that while Rey's part of the story happens almost immediately after TFA ends, it's unclear how much time has passed for everyone else since we don't know how long it took for her to find Luke and get there.

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  13. #1913

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    Quote Originally Posted by BWYYWLTGHR View Post
    If we assume normal physics applies, which I'm guessing is what you are doing... Then there is no maximum speed(basically). And since the other ships are still under thrust and thus speeding up, it would indeed look as if the ships out of fuel were falling backwards.
    The ships wouldn't fall backwards the way we see though like a plane falling out of the sky. Even then, there's still the problem where a larger ship with more powerful engines would be faster regardless of whether the other one was "lighter"; we actually saw that in Empire where Han says outright that the Falcon can't outrun a Star Destroyer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    From what we actually know, he never really got any real actual training in with Yoda.
    We really don't know how much time actually passed in Empire though; the trip from Anoat to Bespin was without a hyperdrive.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwok View Post
    Worth noting that while Rey's part of the story happens almost immediately after TFA ends, it's unclear how much time has passed for everyone else since we don't know how long it took for her to find Luke and get there.
    So long as they have coordinates and a hyperdrive, it shouldn't have taken more than a few days since we see people traveling halfway across the galaxy in a matter of hours in the other trilogies. Mustafar to Coruscant for instance.
    Complicating things since 2009.

  14. #1914

    Default Re: Star Wars Universe

    Quote Originally Posted by MajinArekkusu View Post
    Luke still had way more training than Rey ever had
    Not really.

    and didn't willy nilly lift countless boulders,
    No, Luke never reached the level of Yoda lifting a ship. He topped out at lifting Threepio in a chair. But the general use of the force was expanded over the decades to be, in general, stronger than seen in the orginal trilogy. Just look at how much more active the preqel light saber fights were, (not necesarilly *better* as they were over-choregraphed, but there was a lot more magical power and physical abilities on display) or the emporer tossing the entire senate at Yoda.

    Heck, even looking at Vader specifically, his performance at the end of Rogue One outshone basically anything else he did, including his fight against Obi Wan a whopping couple days later.

    So a lot of that is universe expansion and special effects updates more than anything the original trilogy had as a hard rule of the universe.

    used mind tricks immediately
    He also didn't try. Obi Wan did it in the first movie, and we never see Luke attempt it until Jedi. Where he managed it despite not having really been taught that or completing his training with Yoda. The first time we saw him attempt it, he managed it.

    and beat a sith who trained FOR YEARS even with injuries applied.
    The only sith Luke ever faced were Vader and the Emporer, guys that were able to wipe out huge swathes of jedis. And he couldn't beat the emporer.

    Maybe he also could have beaten unfocused not-fully dark side embraced mentally shaken physically wounded Kylo his first day out. He didn't face him, he faced full power Vader.

    (Who again, put on pathetic showings compared to his Prequel or Rogue One performance because of special effects power creep.)

  15. #1915

    Default Re: Star Wars Universe

    Quote Originally Posted by MajinArekkusu View Post
    Luke still had way more training than Rey ever had and didn't willy nilly lift countless boulders, used mind tricks immediately and beat a sith who trained FOR YEARS even with injuries applied.
    All of the stuff Robby said plus a few caveats:

    The entire "She beat Kylo Ren" thing that's brought up as evidence she's somehow OP doesn't work, ESPECIALLY now because TLJ directly addresses this and answers it.

    For most of TFA they telegraph how powerful Chewie's Bowcaster is. We have specific scenes of Han demonstrating how powerful it is and then he goes "Oh, I like this thing" once. This was a deliberate thing the filmmakers did to show that the wound Kylo took from it wasn't something small he should have been able to shrug off. It was really bad and they show him trying to fight through it the entire time. Him hitting it.

    For all the people who obviously missed that and complained anyway, in TLJ, Snoke offers up more of an explanation. Kylo thought killing Han would help focus him, but it didn't. It caused even more conflict to rage inside of him. This made him unfocused to the point that it hindered his fighting there. Snoke flat out says this in the first scene they have together. The one that ends with Ren smashin his Helmet in the eleavator.


    Snoke ALSO addresses the "Why is Rey so powerful?" question in the movie as well. Like, he directly says out loud why she's as powerful as she is. I've seen the movie twice now but I caught it on my first watch without issue.

    Snoke says, to Paraphrase: "I knew with how powerful you were becoming that the force would try to balance the scales and the light would arise to match you. I assumed it would be Skywalker, but it appears I was mistaken"

    This makes perfect sense because we find out in the movie that Luke CLOSED HIMSELF OFF from the Force... Rey being so powerful is the Force trying to self-correct the imbalance.

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  16. #1916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    So long as they have coordinates and a hyperdrive, it shouldn't have taken more than a few days since we see people traveling halfway across the galaxy in a matter of hours in the other trilogies. Mustafar to Coruscant for instance.
    Well sure, it was maybe a week tops. The main point was that a bit of time passes for everyone else between the two movies and it's not just an instantaneous cut.

    Regarding Rey, I think it's worth noting that she didn't really jump in power at all between the two movies. Gain a bit more control, sure, but she's definitely not doing anything magnitudes larger than she did in TFA. I find that pleasantly reasonable.

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  17. #1917

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    I always figured that Rey is just the logical conclusion of "Bring balance to the force" and then slaughtering hundreds of Jedis. Power overwhelming for her. And Luke is even en(hah)forcing it.
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  18. #1918

    Default Re: Star Wars Universe

    Just watched it last night (late, I know).

    This movie is nitpick paradise; it has a couple of instances where the logical leaps needed for them to make sense are quite staggering, and at some parts it kinda drags. . .

    . . .but overall, I really enjoyed it. The emotions are real this time, there're some really neat visuals (that hyperspace kamikaze attack. . .), and I think some of the most "divisive" scenes that probably have the "community" all riled up. . .I liked. Like you-know-who using the force, or Rey being so powerful because well, it just happened deal with it already and stop bitching about it, or you-know-who's awesome astral projection. . .all of them, really cool scenes, honestly, and all of them surprised me a lot. Like, literally going "Woah! That happened!".

    Again, too bad some of the plot contrivances are. . .contrivances, and I feel like just a couple tweaks and additions would've made some of those moments feel more organic or necessary, but aside from that. . .I enjoyed it!

  19. #1919

    Default Re: Star Wars Universe

    Spoiler:
    I'm sad that Poe Dameron was so awful in this movie. I could not believe how often he did something stupid and I cheered whenever he had to face the consequences. Close to the end I was so afraid that purple-haired lady would turn out to have been a spy and in turn make Poe the hero after all. Thank god she went out a hero herself - a needlessly close-mouthed hero.

    I thought the general core plot of the movie was very cool and interesting. Kylo Ren killing Snoke and taking over was unexpected. For a minute I was hoping that Rey would choose to join him to make me completely lose my mind. But she didn't which is fine.
    I also feel like the movie did a great job of conveying the hopelessness of the rebels. They just kept losing and none of their plans ever worked out. Which in the end did get tedious when the movie still kept going on the new planet and suddenly there was a Star Destroyer cannon because of course there had to be. One climax too many.

    I also did not like the details surrounding the core plot. But all those nitpicks have been talked about and I am fine with explaining them away or ignoring them for the most part.

    Possibly my biggest gripe is that I did not like the humor. At times I did not understand why it was there and at other times it just felt very broad, slapstick, Minion-like. Which is not what I respond to usually. During the 2 hours I definitely laughed more at implausibilities than jokes...

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  20. #1920
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    Liked it quite a bit, but definitely agree it had some major flaws.

    Also, since it seems everything's been discussed at length already, I'm mostly just going to say where my chips lie.

    Spoiler:

    I enjoyed the casino stuff with Finn and Rose, but it felt a little unnecessary and, combined with the Poe/Purple Hair Lady miscommunications, kinda felt like convoluted plot coincidence to make the resistance escape plan fail.

    Rey's training with Luke was enjoyable and I didn't have a major problem with the Flashbacks (mostly due to the acting more than anything else). I haven't seen any of the originals in a looong time, so I don't really have much grounds to comment on Luke's character, but he seemed fine to me. I would have liked a little more actual dark side temptation from Rey, though, in a "What's so bad about this?" kind of way.

    The lightspeed kamikaze scene was really cool. It reminded me of an over-the-top anime sword attack, with how all the ships were cut apart. XP

    I found Snoke's death to be hilarious one of the high points of the films, though this is probably due to the "imperfect mind reading/future sight bites a character in the back" trope being something I personally like.

    I also liked the direction they went with Ren, but one thing I thought was a huge waste of potential was not having a Kylo vs. Rey fight after they beat all of the guards. The two of them having even a brief clash, instead of the force tug-of-war with Luke's Lightsaber, where Ren gains the upper hand because he's no longer "conflicted" or something like that could have built him up as a more credible main villain for the next film. If Luke's Lightsaber needed to be broken for the next film (like Rey making her own Lightsaber out of the parts or something) then they could even have Ren be the one to break it during their fight right before they were blown apart. The saber could even serve as an even better metaphor for the resistance being broken but, as Leia said, having everything they needed to rebuild.

    Lastly, one thing that's been in the back of my mind since Luke's death: I personally don't have any strong feelings about the original trilogy. They all came out before I was born (got into Star Wars with the CGI CW show), and It's been a long time since I've seen any of them. But, with how Rey is in almost the the exact same position as the last jedi and the deaths of Han, Luke, and likely Leia in the next movie (RIP Carrie Fisher), for longtime fans of the series, its it frustrating how the happy ending of the originals was overwritten by the new movies? Or have they handled things well enough so that's not an issue?

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