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Thread: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

  1. #321

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by tatermoog View Post
    Considering where it all ended up, you could really probably cut out Perrin.

    *shrug*
    Nooo. Don't axe Perrin.

    How about we just rewrite some stuff?

    He's fantastic up until The Shadow Rising (which is the best book, by the way).

    After that it depends on if the Shaido will even still exist at that point or if that all gets cut. Same with Masema. I don't think we need him at all. Anyway, let's keep the Shaido and have Perrin deal with them in a more succinct way. He just has to ally himself with the Seanchan way quicker. And I think one reason for him durdling around so much was that all the other characters had stuff to do and Perrin wasn't allowed to catch up with them too fast. But that probably won't be a problem because a lot of that will be cut as well.

    Finally, make Luc/Isam a bigger threat so that Perrin fighting him as his climax is actually useful. Make him almost as dangerous as a Forsaken. In some ways, he is.

    I don't know, I really don't want to lose Perrin. He is still my favourite male character. I know he has issues.
    Last edited by Huschel; April 25th, 2017 at 12:53 PM.

    How original is it to still have this in my signature 5 years later?

  2. #322

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Perrin was great, but as far as the actual mechanisms of the story go, he was...pretty irrelevant.

    Now that I think about it, what I think I would do is hire Brandon Sanderson to write a general beginning-to-end treatment. He was less archaic than Jordan, seemed to have a good grasp of the characters, and figured out a way to push to an ending while trimming the fat and having some fun. Was it as unique or even as good as Jordan? Eh, arguable. But it was entertaining and true to the series.

    Which, really, main point: if you do the show, it's going to immediately fail if you try to make it as dark and dense and convoluted as ASoIaF.

  3. #323

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwok View Post
    Not sure that I would call Thom or Moiraine leads, even.
    I wouldn't either but early on they carry a lot of weight. For the first season they'd be focal points. After that they pull the the backlines and you bring the other girls to higher prominence and Thom eventually becomes Matt's sidekick basically.

    At the very least Thom is pretty constantly hanging around *someone* in the party, obviously he'd eventually just be sidekick to Matt.

    As far as adapting the books would go, something like 1-3 adventure stuff, 4-6 Aiel, 7-9 for saidin and the Black Tower development, 10-12 for healing the White Tower, and 13-14 for the big finish. Depends on the length of the season, since there are more distinct events early on that need covering.
    SOunds like a pretty decent 5 season plan to me. Obviously if they're only 10 episode seasons you spread that out a little more but... yeah. No way to do it without condensing like crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by tatermoog View Post
    Considering where it all ended up, you could really probably cut out Perrin.

    *shrug*
    Ouch. And yet, true. Would also avoid comparisons to GoT.

    Padan Fain could be entirely cut as well with almost no loss to the overall plot.

    And Masema for sure. I still think its hilarious how Sanderson dealt with that plot thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by tatermoog View Post
    Now that I think about it, what I think I would do is hire Brandon Sanderson to write a general beginning-to-end treatment. He was less archaic than Jordan, seemed to have a good grasp of the characters, and figured out a way to push to an ending while trimming the fat and having some fun. Was it as unique or even as good as Jordan? Eh, arguable. But it was entertaining and true to the series.
    I'm sure Sanderson would be down for that but he's busy writing like 18 books a year.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    And I think one reason for him durdling around so much was that all the other characters had stuff to do and Perrin wasn't allowed to catch up with them too fast. But that probably won't be a problem because a lot of that will be cut as well.
    There were quite a few things where the overall story arc for some characters finished could have finished super early, and you can see residue from when Jordan had planned on the series being a shorter 5 (and then 7) volume series. Really I think Perrin's story was *done* after the Two Rivers arc. He was married, hero of the town, had an epic battle, was a lord, and had beaten his villain. And that was in like, volume 4. Out of 14. He then sat out an entire volume before showing up again. I'm pretty sure the *entire* super dragged out Faile kidnapping plot for like five volumes was to give Perrin something to do rather than be absent for 7 volumes while the white tower stuff got slowly pushed forward.

    (On the same note, the mysteries and prophecies surrounding Matt's things that *started* in book 4 that didn't get resolved till book 13 well... could have resolved way sooner though I guess it taking *years* in real time to get to Tuon helped some.)
    Similarly, there were a bunch of plotlines that had to wait for Rand to do event X before everything else could move forward.

    It's pretty easy to see spots where a hindsight edit could have easily taken out a couple volumes almost whole cloth with very little loss. Similarly if, with hindsight, the entire narrative had been willing to just wholecloth split and focus on one thing for a volume at a time and then reconnect it all later, it might have worked better. One volume for the white tower stuff, one volume for Perrin's thing, one volume for Rand's stuff... rather than having all their plots slog for 6 books.
    Last edited by Robby; April 25th, 2017 at 09:56 PM.
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  4. #324

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    Agreed. I can't see Wheel of Time doing well on TV ever, unfortunately. Too much fantasy, I suppose.
    Gosh, silly young Huschel. I am now much more prepared and excited for the Wheel of Time TV series to actually happen. Please don't get cancelled after two seasons.

    After Rosamund pike had been announced as Moiraine a little while ago, we have recently gotten the actors for the Emond's Field youths. I don't know any of them (which is really for the best) but I like the way they look.

    (I also wasn't aware until a couple days ago that showrunner/producers Rafe Judkins was a part of early Agents of Shield. Clearly, they are making this series for me personally).

    Edit: I suppose I could have made a new thread. Is what I'm thinking one minute after hitting post...

    How original is it to still have this in my signature 5 years later?

  5. #325

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Eh, the book portion of this thread is dead, its probably fine to repurpose this over to the tv show when it finally hits.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
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    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  6. #326

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    We have images! Not super impressive thus far. They aged up all the town kids a bit to avoid it looking like a CW show.

    https://news.yahoo.com/welcome-wheel...190000366.html





    Not the most impressive of first looks but I can at least tell who everyone is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    I just learned that the Wheel Of Time tv show is coming Out this November and I have the first two books but I never read them, I want to read at least the first two books before I watch the show
    As a big fan of the books for over 25 years, my advice is two-fold.

    1-Wait for reviews of the show. It may end up being terrible and completely fail to be the long runner it needs to be. For the show to be done at all right, it'll need to be 8 or 9 seasons at least and it might not do well enough to warrant that.

    2. Keep in mind, I'm saying this as a 25 year fan... don't read the books.

    There's good stuff in there. Overall there's a lot that's worthwhile and great, fantastic even. But after the fifth book or so, Jordan really, REALLY lost his way in the middle and books 6-11 are a really bad slog where the story slows to an absolute crawl because the cast ballooned too much and a lot of threads had to hold in place while other things finished... and this is not personal opinion, this is just accepted fact by everyone that's read them. It's largely only saved by the fact the author *died* and someone else came in to fix the pacing and tie things up and mostly stuck the landing.

    Some good and memorable character stuff and some great moments but, knowing now how the whole thing unfolds in its entirety.... given the sheer length of the whole thing, it is just not worth going through that middle part if you're not already invested. There's more highs than lows but its just SUCH a long term investment and about 1/3 of it is just really rough to get through... and at that length 1/3 is a LOT. Jordan brought a lot to the genre to revitalize it after it stagnated from decades of Tolkien influence, but in the 30 years since there's been a wealth of other writers to follow his lead and do similar, and often better, stories.

    Whole wealth of other fantasy series you can do instead, that are shorter or more rewarding narratives.

    If you REALLY want to do it... try and hunt down the audiobooks. That way you can just listen to the 30-60 hour volumes, and the two narrators (one for the male led chapters, one for the female) are both VERY good.



    There's no telling yet if the tv show will be any good or not based on the early screenshots, but they have the hindsight of the finished series, and they can *edit* and take stuff out and it might potentially be the far superior version of the story as a result. It's impossible to say this early on.
    Last edited by Robby; September 7th, 2021 at 08:33 AM.
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  7. #327

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Oh wow I didn't know this thread existed. The new show looks fine. Not a big fan of channeling. And the Aes Sedai look a bit too much for my taste. The dresses are too bulky.


    As for the books, I am not a big fan. When I started my read through earlier last year I head my expectations too high. I was already spoiled on certain events but nothing too big.


    SPOILERS

    The first five books were relatively easy to digest. The Slog was, well, a slog. But I was already prepared for that as I was warned beforehand.

    Now my relationship with the books can only be described as a love-hate relationship. For the most part I loved the characters. The boys were a bit boring to read and too self-deprecating, but the girls more than made up for it, at least before the slog. That's when the things took a turn for the worst. The women became unbearable and the boys unlikeable, though that was kind of the point.


    My biggest problem with the story however, is, well, the story. My favourite plotline to see resolved was the Amyrlin Elaida plotline. This is also why book 12 was my favourite. Well, that and the fact that Egwene was for the first time in a long time not too annoying and was instead badass and super fun to read. This is also why even though book 12 is my favourite it's ending is my least favourite. The fact that after all this fighting and build up, Elaida is simply taken out of the plot in the cheapest way possible. How convenient.


    That is also where in my opinion everything started to go downhill. Perrin's plotline was imo the most boring one. The Slayer was underdeveloped as a villain and I did not care too much for him. Mat is the character that everyone seems to love but I just couldn't. He was super funny at times and super annoying at others. However my biggest disappointment with him was the conclusion of his character arc - he became a slaver. Tuon was interesting at first however as her hypocrisies started to pile up, so did my dislike of her.


    This brings me to Seanchan. The group that was in my opinion even more villainous than the Dark One forces. The group that I was so excited to see defeated. Oh how naive of me.


    I don't think I can continue writing this. My blood has started to boil. I might give my opinions on Rand and some other characters that I didn't mention here some other time. For now I'll leave it at that.


    BTW Is there a Cosmere thread?

  8. #328

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by UniversallyBlue View Post
    BTW Is there a Cosmere thread?
    Nothing dedicated. Sanderson gets brought up from time to time, usually when talking about this series or GoT as way of comparison, but there's generally not enough real discussion or interest to warrant giving it a thread.

    Make one if you want but it'll almost certainly be slow or dead immediately. Especially given the cosmere is so many different series and no one is at the same place or order on them. Dedicated discussion is probably better left to reddit or his youtube channel that he updates every week.

    This thread has been dead for yhears, almost all of the discussion was right when the final book was coming out and basically everyone was caught up.
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    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  9. #329
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Having spent last 12-13 months reading the books, something that I wanted for years but didn't have an opportunity, I have yet to see anything interesting about the show, so far.

    And as sloggish as the middle was, the main reason why it took me a year, there's still interesting stuff in there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  10. #330

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    We have images! Not super impressive thus far. They aged up all the town kids a bit to avoid it looking like a CW show.

    https://news.yahoo.com/welcome-wheel...190000366.html

    https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/3G...36a2a99646f74a
    https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/AP...e9bcdf1a6be3c5
    https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/z_...6bc77e83917b7e

    Not the most impressive of first looks but I can at least tell who everyone is.




    As a big fan of the books for over 25 years, my advice is two-fold.

    1-Wait for reviews of the show. It may end up being terrible and completely fail to be the long runner it needs to be. For the show to be done at all right, it'll need to be 8 or 9 seasons at least and it might not do well enough to warrant that.

    2. Keep in mind, I'm saying this as a 25 year fan... don't read the books.

    There's good stuff in there. Overall there's a lot that's worthwhile and great, fantastic even. But after the fifth book or so, Jordan really, REALLY lost his way in the middle and books 6-11 are a really bad slog where the story slows to an absolute crawl because the cast ballooned too much and a lot of threads had to hold in place while other things finished... and this is not personal opinion, this is just accepted fact by everyone that's read them. It's largely only saved by the fact the author *died* and someone else came in to fix the pacing and tie things up and mostly stuck the landing.

    Some good and memorable character stuff and some great moments but, knowing now how the whole thing unfolds in its entirety.... given the sheer length of the whole thing, it is just not worth going through that middle part if you're not already invested. There's more highs than lows but its just SUCH a long term investment and about 1/3 of it is just really rough to get through... and at that length 1/3 is a LOT. Jordan brought a lot to the genre to revitalize it after it stagnated from decades of Tolkien influence, but in the 30 years since there's been a wealth of other writers to follow his lead and do similar, and often better, stories.

    Whole wealth of other fantasy series you can do instead, that are shorter or more rewarding narratives.

    If you REALLY want to do it... try and hunt down the audiobooks. That way you can just listen to the 30-60 hour volumes, and the two narrators (one for the male led chapters, one for the female) are both VERY good.



    There's no telling yet if the tv show will be any good or not based on the early screenshots, but they have the hindsight of the finished series, and they can *edit* and take stuff out and it might potentially be the far superior version of the story as a result. It's impossible to say this early on.
    I heard the same thing from a friend of mine too, he loved the first five to six books but then he thought it went down hill

    I’ll probably read the first two books just to see what the hype is about, I just started book one and I’m on chapter 9 so I’ve still got aways to go

    Are there any other fantasy/sci-fi book series worth reading that aren’t the wheel of time or the Cosmere books? I’ve been looking for something new to get into, particularly if they have good world building and magic systems (like Brandon Sanderson)

  11. #331

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    Are there any other fantasy/sci-fi book series worth reading that aren’t the wheel of time or the Cosmere books? I’ve been looking for something new to get into, particularly if they have good world building and magic systems (like Brandon Sanderson)

    Well I would recommend the Cosmere but...

    Here's something of a list. I'm not going to describe them in detail because then we'd be here all day but you can do a quick wiki search and see if any of them strike your interest.

    For sci-fi
    Asimov's Foundation stuff is kind of a big staple. galaxy spanning world building from one of the all time greats.
    Herbert's Dune is worth the effort (the first one at least). About a space empire and fight for the material that grants immortality. Fantastic world building, not so great characters.
    Larry Niven's Ringworld. About astronauts investigating a rotating wheel artificial world, an alien construct in space 186 million miles in diameter.
    Robert L. Forward's Dragon's Egg. Alien planet moves moves a million times faster than stuff outside, and how they react to an approaching space ship.

    For fantasy
    Mark Lawrence's Broken Empire (Prince of THorns, King of THorns, Emperor of Thorns) is good. Greg got me onto that one. "Set in post-apocalyptic Europe, the trilogy follows the life of Jorg Ancrath as he goes from scorned prince to Emperor; using whatever means necessary."
    Ursule Le Guin's Earthsea books are about the life of a compassionate wizard and a few different quests he goes on throughout his life.
    L.E. Modesitt's Saga of Recluce is really interesting, because it starts at the *end* of history and then moves backwards over the course of 20 books, so stuff that was legend in one book is different in the next. I haven't gotten through them all but its neat.
    Lloyd Alexander's Black Cauldron series. (Don't judge it by the Disney movie.)
    N. K. Jemisin's The Inheritance Trilogy, The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms is good. Floating cities and gods and monsters and kings and queens and things.
    Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone, and Robert Howard's Conan are kind of obvious Sword and Sorcery but if you've never read it, they hold up as pulp stories.

    I can't personally vouch for it but it's on my to do list, but The Licanius Trilogy by James Islington is supposed to be really good. Wheel of Time esque without the baggage of length.

    For something kind of different,
    Roger Zelazny's The Chronicles of Amber by are great, I've been meaning to reread those for years and years. I read them back in high school and they still stick with me. The premise is that there's one core universe, and then infinite variations on it that a certain family can travel between.
    Terry Pratchett's Diskworld is more comedic but great, its beloved by basically everyone that reads it. Ton of books.
    Kill the Farmboy by Kevin Hearne and Delilah S. Dawson was pretty funny but it lost me part way when the humor started to grow stale and not compensate for the plot anymore, it might click for you better though.
    Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun series. A journeyman torturer who is disgraced and forced to wander, in a distant future when the Sun has dimmed and Earth is cooler.
    George R.R. Martin- anything BUT Game of Thrones. Martin is a fantastic writer and has a substantial backlog. Before he got bogged down in Ice and Fire, he wrote a ton of award winning books and they're pretty much all good... and not at all like Thrones.

    And, I have to put a caveat here... if you can find a used or free copy, or just download the audiobook somewhere, Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game and the first sequel, Speaker for the Dead are fantastic, (but not the later sequels) I've bought them multiple time throughout my life but can't support the author anymore for reasons. If you can get ahold of those without supporting the author, you should.

    And for something really out there that might be harder to find...

    Jack McKinney's Robotech. Robotech has a weird history since it was three different unrelated anime thrown together for an english market, but the books retell the stories very well, adding tons of extra depth and history and adding in extra novels to flesh out the world in ways the unconnected anime couldn't and gives it a much larger scope and timeline. The books are why I still love the franchise, not the shows. I've had a harder time going back to them since I fully grasped just what the anime had done and that they weren't actually one big story, but... in the novels that's less an issue.
    Last edited by Robby; September 9th, 2021 at 01:55 AM.
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    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  12. #332

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Thank you for the suggestions Robby, can’t wait to check some of these out!

  13. #333
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Excellent list, have some of those in my ever growing backlog.

    Speaking of good world building and magic systems, go for Joe Abercombie's First Law series, and the books following it set in the same world. R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing is also worth a try.

    After discovering LOTR, I first stumbled onto Guy Gavriel Kay and his books, because my town library featured him heavily. I have since read a lot more interesting stuff, but still. He's written 11 book, of which only 1 was a waste of time, and all of them have some degree of magic/occult involved.

    Since Zelazny was mentioned, you can check out his Lord of Light as well, sort of a reimagining of Hindu deities set in a distant future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  14. #334

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    I’m only on chapter 15 of the first book and they’ve already name dropped more events, places and names than I could ever hope to remember

    I think I might have to start taking notes

  15. #335
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    I was overwhelmed as well at first, but you're supposed to be, since it emulates what protagonists are experiencing, not knowing shit about the world. Things start falling in place seamlessly later on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  16. #336

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Yeah, that is perfectly normal AND intended. You're supposed to be overwhelmed, just like the leads.

    WHich was interesting when I did a reread years later because I had the opposite reaction of "wow, you all are a bunch of country bumpkins, you don't know anything!" but was also neat in seeing just how DIFFERENT they all were at the start.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
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    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  17. #337

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Oh thank god I thought it was just me

  18. #338

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Well I would recommend the Cosmere but...

    Here's something of a list. I'm not going to describe them in detail because then we'd be here all day but you can do a quick wiki search and see if any of them strike your interest.

    For sci-fi
    Asimov's Foundation stuff is kind of a big staple. galaxy spanning world building from one of the all time greats.
    Herbert's Dune is worth the effort (the first one at least). About a space empire and fight for the material that grants immortality. Fantastic world building, not so great characters.
    Larry Niven's Ringworld. About astronauts investigating a rotating wheel artificial world, an alien construct in space 186 million miles in diameter.
    Robert L. Forward's Dragon's Egg. Alien planet moves moves a million times faster than stuff outside, and how they react to an approaching space ship.

    For fantasy
    Mark Lawrence's Broken Empire (Prince of THorns, King of THorns, Emperor of Thorns) is good. Greg got me onto that one. "Set in post-apocalyptic Europe, the trilogy follows the life of Jorg Ancrath as he goes from scorned prince to Emperor; using whatever means necessary."
    Ursule Le Guin's Earthsea books are about the life of a compassionate wizard and a few different quests he goes on throughout his life.
    L.E. Modesitt's Saga of Recluce is really interesting, because it starts at the *end* of history and then moves backwards over the course of 20 books, so stuff that was legend in one book is different in the next. I haven't gotten through them all but its neat.
    Lloyd Alexander's Black Cauldron series. (Don't judge it by the Disney movie.)
    N. K. Jemisin's The Inheritance Trilogy, The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms is good. Floating cities and gods and monsters and kings and queens and things.
    Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone, and Robert Howard's Conan are kind of obvious Sword and Sorcery but if you've never read it, they hold up as pulp stories.

    I can't personally vouch for it but it's on my to do list, but The Licanius Trilogy by James Islington is supposed to be really good. Wheel of Time esque without the baggage of length.

    For something kind of different,
    Roger Zelazny's The Chronicles of Amber by are great, I've been meaning to reread those for years and years. I read them back in high school and they still stick with me. The premise is that there's one core universe, and then infinite variations on it that a certain family can travel between.
    Terry Pratchett's Diskworld is more comedic but great, its beloved by basically everyone that reads it. Ton of books.
    Kill the Farmboy by Kevin Hearne and Delilah S. Dawson was pretty funny but it lost me part way when the humor started to grow stale and not compensate for the plot anymore, it might click for you better though.
    Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun series. A journeyman torturer who is disgraced and forced to wander, in a distant future when the Sun has dimmed and Earth is cooler.
    George R.R. Martin- anything BUT Game of Thrones. Martin is a fantastic writer and has a substantial backlog. Before he got bogged down in Ice and Fire, he wrote a ton of award winning books and they're pretty much all good... and not at all like Thrones.

    And, I have to put a caveat here... if you can find a used or free copy, or just download the audiobook somewhere, Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game and the first sequel, Speaker for the Dead are fantastic, (but not the later sequels) I've bought them multiple time throughout my life but can't support the author anymore for reasons. If you can get ahold of those without supporting the author, you should.

    And for something really out there that might be harder to find...

    Jack McKinney's Robotech. Robotech has a weird history since it was three different unrelated anime thrown together for an english market, but the books retell the stories very well, adding tons of extra depth and history and adding in extra novels to flesh out the world in ways the unconnected anime couldn't and gives it a much larger scope and timeline. The books are why I still love the franchise, not the shows. I've had a harder time going back to them since I fully grasped just what the anime had done and that they weren't actually one big story, but... in the novels that's less an issue.
    Great List, Iím after the Dune Set, the Complete Earthsea, the complete Discworld and on Mr. Niven. If only I had money and time.

    Your comment on Grum reminds me that I have yet to read his Dreamsong books.

    And on the Foundation Topic, are we talking solely on the 40s trilogy or are we adding up the 80s sequel and prequel? Because they do some wanders to further characterize Daneel, give more world building for Trantor and the in between of the Robot series and the Foundation Series, and explain the Mule.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  19. #339

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by pariston_hill View Post
    Great List, I’m after the Dune Set, the Complete Earthsea, the complete Discworld and on Mr. Niven. If only I had money and time.
    It's hard to recommend Dune in its entirety. It's scope is impressive but it goes down the rabbit hole hard by the later books with its prophecy stuff and some of the sci-fi things that are really out there. You're either in for the series or you're not.

    The strength of the series is its world building and not its characters, so it was a rough one for me.

    And on the Foundation Topic, are we talking solely on the 40s trilogy or are we adding up the 80s sequel and prequel? Because they do some wanders to further characterize Daneel, give more world building for Trantor and the in between of the Robot series and the Foundation Series, and explain the Mule.
    I actually haven't read the later stuff so I have no opinion of it. I've read a decent sampling of Asimov because he's so prolific and important, so I did the original Foundation trilogy and I Robot and some of the shorts, but very little of his style works for me. Also while I like sci-fi just fine I'm more a fantasy guy in general.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  20. #340

    Default Re: The Wheel of Time (Spoiler Warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    2. Keep in mind, I'm saying this as a 25 year fan... don't read the books.

    There's good stuff in there. Overall there's a lot that's worthwhile and great, fantastic even. But after the fifth book or so, Jordan really, REALLY lost his way in the middle and books 6-11 are a really bad slog where the story slows to an absolute crawl because the cast ballooned too much and a lot of threads had to hold in place while other things finished... and this is not personal opinion, this is just accepted fact by everyone that's read them. It's largely only saved by the fact the author *died* and someone else came in to fix the pacing and tie things up and mostly stuck the landing.
    Oof, that is pretty harsh. Here's my take:

    Books one through seven all had their individual climaxes that they were gearing up towards. Self-contained plots, if you will. Obviously, with the bigger ongoing story always progressing as well.

    Starting with book 8 that changed somewhat and plotlines began to go beyond single books. Even then, Winter's Heart (9) has one of the most exciting and pivotal endings of the whole series. I believe the only book that most people would call sloggy is Crossroads of Twilight (10). Took me two attempts to get through that one as well.

    I am shocked that some people include Knife of Dreams (11) when they talk about the slog because that is where so many things get resolved and Jordan clearly showed that he knew what he had been working towards. I feel like 11 just gets thrown in there sometimes because it was also still written by Robert Jordan.

    I have no doubt that had he not died prematurely, there would have been about one or two more books than what we got. But Jordan was most definitely ready to tie up his storylines. He showed that with Knife of Dreams. Sanderson took all the setup and ended the story satisfactorily.

    Anyway, about the trailer. I liked it for the most part. There were some beautiful scenery shots and the Myrddraal looked cool and scary. The color-coordinated Aes Sedai are somewhat silly, but I get it, it's a visual medium. Speakin of which, my main hope is that the way channeling is depicted will still change. I'd really like to see the different elemental strands and not just white energy flows. It's possible that they will do that later on when we get more information about the One Power. I have my fingers crossed.

    How original is it to still have this in my signature 5 years later?

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