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Thread: Naruto Discussion!

  1. #4241

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aethos View Post
    Except that the only reason Naruto could master this jutsu is because he's got all that excess chakra from Kyuubi. It isn't natural talent it's just because he's got all that extra chakra to burn. That doesn't make him great or Hokage worthy. It just means he has more chakra than the fourth.

    Heck if Yondaime had Kyuubi in him he probably could have completed the jutsu too.

    I always thought that the Kyuubi holds him back, and that hes has a massive amount of his own chakra.

  2. #4242

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    It's because of Kyuubi that he was able to master the wind element. It is, however, Kakashi's sudden thing to give Naruto "inspiration" to put Wind into the Rasengan, even if the Rasengan right now looks like the rasengan with slight edges.

  3. #4243

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    If naruto had all the skills and abiltys you guys/gals wanted him to have dont you think that him would be the ultimate ...... i think that kish was right to make naruto an idiot.

  4. #4244

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    There's a difference between underdog and lack of skill, or techniques for that matter.

  5. #4245

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Lawliet View Post
    There's a difference between underdog and lack of skill, or techniques for that matter.
    If naruto had skill and techniques with his Huge amount of charka dont you think he be a bad ass and would punk guys like sasuke.

  6. #4246

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    So you're saying you're happy that Naruto only has two techniques.

    It's not just the techniques number that I'm unhappy about. It's also how Naruto uses them. Shikamaru only has one technique (sort of) and he excels at the use of it. Naruto just abuses the rasengan and shadow clones.
    Last edited by Le Lawliet; December 23rd, 2006 at 09:23 PM.

  7. #4247
    エッチなのはいけないと思います! Malintex_Terek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Majek View Post
    Wait wait. Are you saying that at the basics Naruto is only competent? Based on what?
    How would I know? I only learned that he mastered 'basics' from reading this thread; I thought he still had the same fundamental chakra control problems he's had since he was still a below-average genin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Majek View Post
    And who else has mastered something that they haven't been taught by their parents since they were born as fast as naruto? So why does that rank him a the bottom?
    Um, Sasuke? Rock Lee? We don't know about Tenten, but I suppose you could make that inference; point is, though, I don't see what being supervised by parents has to do with actually learning something. My parents tried to teach me to tie my shoes and I never learned from them, but in the third grade I started experimenting and taught myself.

    That's a rather moot point, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Majek View Post
    And if Rasengan is such simple chakra control why doesn't everyone use it?
    Doesn't seem to come standard with academy training, does it? I'd imagine if it were taught to people at large, more than simply Naruto could use it; but then again, it's a "family secret" trade just like the other family jutsu styles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Majek View Post
    I mean shouldn't they all benifit from something so simple?
    Apparently not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Majek View Post
    Tsunades's stregth tehqniue is simpler that but it reuqires complete control over ALL your chakra, which it the only thing preventing Naruto from mastering it. Afterall its only a powerup that increases your crushing ability and only with your fists at that. Naruto's chakra infused blows may not crush rocks but they still do vast ammounts of damage.
    Not exactly; Rasengan is like a buzzsaw with a small area of impact. Yes, it can grind through stuff, but the splash damage from doing so is minimized, as Jiraiya demonstrated with his usage through trees. Splash damage is more destructive for living bodies than with objects; Sakura punches, by this logic, are more dangerous than Naruto's Rasengan.

    Additionally, why is Tsunade's technique simplier than Rasengan?

    [QUOTE=Majek;421297]
    He's learned to manage his Kage Bunshins much better so it's not a matter of chakra ammount anymore so there's no reason to belittle his skills of chakra manipulation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Majek View Post
    If you look at it that way almost everyone of the former-Genins is a one trick pony. We don't know what they have learned other than more control over their clan abilities that can't be used to compare to other jutsu.
    You're basically condensing a whole style of fighting into being "one trick", which isn't the same as only knowing one Jutsu and only knowing one way to apply said Jutsu. Aye, I'd agree that Shikamaru, Ino, and Chouji are "gimmick" characters, but they've got other qualities to apply to their Jutsu that transcend "cheap" status; namely, the ability to function as a team and, more importantly, brains!

    ...

    This is... really strange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrich View Post
    Now you're being harsh. Naruto may be a mediocre main character, but he doesn't deserve to be compared to... that.
    Oh, I'm not saying they're basically brothers, just that they have (had) a lot in common. Namely, "underdog" status, low-self esteem, poor fighting skills, incompetence, a lack of 'common sense', unrealistic dreams, high propensity for hyperaction and unusual facial features.

    Naruto has made a lot of progress from where he once was, but if people didn't like the 'old' Naruto I can't see how the series or the titular character would have gotten so popular.

    Quote Originally Posted by dlo62282 View Post
    The oro fight wasnt a proper fight. That was kyuubi fight imo. That whole arc was to show Naruto he shouldnt use the Kyuubi and he is learning to use his own power now. He just threw some punches at Diedra. He just rasengan Itachi and tried to fight off a gen-jutsu.
    That's where opinions diverge, I guess. I consider Usopp v. Jabura to be a proper, if one-sided fight; as such, I also see Naruto's battles in Part II to be 'proper' as well. I'm not sure how you're defining 'proper' but if we're talking about multi-chapter battles, said fights appear, to me anyways, as 'proper'.

    An example of an improper fight would be Usopp v. The Franky Family.

    Quote Originally Posted by dlo62282 View Post
    Kakashi stated that the Rasengan is the highest form of chakra control. How is that simple?
    Smells like a retcon to me, but regardless of that, Naruto couldn't execute the technique properly; he invented an (ingenuis) circumnavigation around his lack of chakra control.

    You will excuse me for my ignorance in these matters since I do not read the Naruto manga fully (or with gusto) and I'm merely waiting for the Part II anime to start (heck, I've been waiting since September 2005); however, from what I remember, Naruto used a clone to assist him with GBR against the 30% clones, which leads me to think that he doesn't have the control in 'normal' form to maintain a proper Rasengan.

    I say 'normal' because in the One-Tailed state he used a purple Rasengan one-handed without all that much trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by dlo62282 View Post
    Yes, i pegged battle smarts as instincts. And we are classified as animals, if you didnt notice. :)
    While this is true, people don't view each other as animals, and associate "instrict" with more primitive means of self-preservation; if I saw Naruto using his brain a lot more than his 'gut' (pardon the figure of speech), it would be a signal to me that he's more than simply an animalistic fighter; he's got a human side as well.

    Naruto's whole theme is fox-like, but he's trying to curb this sterotype by acting like a traditional (well...) ninja. Aside from his training with the ninja gear, he's still a pretty animalistic fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by dlo62282 View Post
    He didnt forget his goal. He mentioned it to Kankuro when he was going to save Gaara.
    It's not really about forgetting the goal, but his zeal has sort of softened for it and people (apparently) don't like that. Since vigor was always Naruto's strong point, it looks like the character is "degrading" a la Usopp, but it's actually developmental. This is why, as I said earlier, I wouldn't miss Naruto spouting his mantra about being Hokage all the time; he's grown beyond a need to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by dlo62282 View Post
    His team abilities were shown in the Zabuzu arc. The chuunin exam in the forest of death. The Kakashi vs itachi clone fight. He showed as much teamwork as anybody else. Kakashi pretty much drilled to them the importance of team work. The worked well together when it was needed.
    After seeing Shikamaru in action during the Kakazu + Hidan fight(s), I'm prone to disagree, and we haven't see what the other Rookie Nine ninja have to offer yet. Additionally, the 'team work' illustrated by Naruto in the earlier fights was merely a subject of focus; we were watching Naruto fight virtually the whole time, and there wasn't a lot of manga devoted to the other teams. Ino + Chouji + Shikamaru, yes, but not Hinata + Shino + Kiba.

    If anything, those six work together with one another better than Naruto and his team; heck, Naruto would work better with any of them than with his team, so I guess I can't discredit him for everything.

    But, keep in mind that only the best become Hokage, and if the desired trait for Hokage is "tactics" Naruto will need to surpass Shikamaru in order for him to realistically attain his goal.

    Such is possible, with training, but unlikely at this point. Things could change, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by dlo62282 View Post
    You are right he doesnt have any leadership abilities. But that can change with time, correct?
    Haha, we're on the same wavelength.

    Quote Originally Posted by dlo62282 View Post
    I am not sure what Slash Emperor is.
    I was trying to get you to Google it, but in summary it's an outrageous weapon from the TYPE-MOON universe. It's outrageous because the whole concept of it's existence is; "to kill everyone to save them from themselves".

    Quote Originally Posted by dlo62282 View Post
    You want proof that he is charmistic? Well maybe that is the wrong word, but people draw inspiration from him. And he affects people way of thinking. Oro spent 20 mins with Naruto in the forest of death and concluded that Sasuke had to get away from him ASAP. KAbuto also recognized this. He pratically changed Chiyo's view on Konoha. And he a freaking bridge name after him when he was just a genin in a foreign country.
    It's his drive, not charisma, that acts as inspiration, which is related to his stubborness. Like Luffy he'd rather die before giving up, which transcends rationality but it's quite a sight to behold coming from someone like Naruto. Luffy...meh, not as impressive given his status.

    Quote Originally Posted by dlo62282 View Post
    I am not a big Naruto fan. At least not of the character, but he has potential to become Hokage. He just need to improve in some areas. His idoit moments seem to be more due to his childhood than his actual brain functions. He was very immature. He liked to joke around and wanted to attract attention to himself because everybody ignored him.
    I'll concede to that; his maturity is a step toward his goal, but he's still got a long way to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by dlo62282 View Post
    I dont see how Ussop and Naruto are similiar. Ussop is a coward. Naruto has only been a coward once and that was the beginning of the wave arc. They are totally two different characters.
    See the above for a better analysis; Usopp is basically defined by his cowardess so sort of blinds people to the other traits they share in common, but don't be fooled by that one attribute.

    Quote Originally Posted by dlo62282 View Post
    Naruto is not behind the curve in terms of the other 12 former genin. The only ones who are stronger are Neiji and Sasuke. You talk about Naruto's lack of jutsu. But who besides Sasuke and Neiji, have used more jutsu's than Naruto? Shika uses his shadown imitation jutsu and his shadow bind jutsu. We only seen Ino do one jutsu. All Rock lee do is tai-jutsu and opened some gates. Chouji used meat ball attack, partial giant jutsu, full giant jutsu. Kiba pre-time skip pretty much used one jutsu. Ten-Ten used weapons. I could go on.
    It's application, though; those other folk might have only a single jutsu, but they can apply them in creative ways and with different teams. Naruto's best teamwork is with himself (literally the Kage Bushins), and he's not relying much on skill with his jutsu as he is with the jutsu's raw power. This is why he should expand his breadth of proficiency; if he's not going to be that good of a team player (with other teams), he should define himself with a more varied moveset to compensate.
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  8. #4248

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    well in the 2nd bell test he used his shadow clones in a good way and fighting/smahing deidraa was a good and nice way he used his shadow clones also. and we cant forget about his traning with his 1000 shadow clones which is an great way to use them, and rasengan well that techinique is good for poping heads, and now he has a sup up wind rasengan for what poping heads, naruto is bond to learn more wind moves and we have yet to see if naruto has another type of chraka manipulation.

  9. #4249

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by WHITEBEARD View Post
    well in the 2nd bell test he used his shadow clones in a good way and fighting/smahing deidraa was a good and nice way he used his shadow clones also. and we cant forget about his traning with his 1000 shadow clones which is an great way to use them,
    He used his shadow clones to jump. Oooo, I'm so impressed.

    the 1000 shadow clones is the only time it could possibly be useful, but Naruto has yet to show actual usage of the technique that shows that he applies it well in battle.

    and rasengan well that techinique is good for poping heads, and now he has a sup up wind rasengan for what poping heads, naruto is bond to learn more wind moves and we have yet to see if naruto has another type of chraka manipulation.
    His purpose was to create a new technique. All he did was 0.1UP the rasengan with wind. Even if Rasengan is good for "poping" heads as you said, it gets extremely repetitive, and opponents can already find a way to defeat the rasengan. It appears, at the moment, that the wind rasengan is just 0.1UPing its power, but if Naruto just blindly charges at his opponent, how will he defeat Orochimaru if Kabuto easily subdued him?

  10. #4250

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Lawliet View Post
    the 1000 shadow clones is the only time it could possibly be useful, but Naruto has yet to show actual usage of the technique that shows that he applies it well in battle.
    him using his shadow clones aganist sasuke was also a good way to use them aswell.

    and the training with them, man that the best/the ultmiate way to use them! he clould be training while taking a shit, what more do you want.

    and the wind rasengan might suck his oponents up into it, we dont know how he works it... and like i said be 4 naruto might...no he will learn new wind moves along with the wind rasengan. as long as he has the 1000 shadow clone training method he clould learn them all less then a week.

  11. #4251

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by WHITEBEARD View Post
    him using his shadow clones aganist sasuke was also a good way to use them aswell.
    remind me please.

    and the training with them, man that the best/the ultmiate way to use them! he clould be training while taking a shit, what more do you want.
    The question is if that benefits him in fighting instead of spamming all of them against his opponents.

    and the wind rasengan might suck his oponents up into it
    Judging by how it's leaving a giant crater, it seems like the opposite. But if the actual user appears to not take any damage from the apparent wind, will it make a difference to the opponents whether it's wind upped or not?

    we dont know how he works it... and like i said be 4 naruto might...no he will learn new wind moves along with the wind rasengan. as long as he has the 1000 shadow clone training method he clould learn them all less then a week.
    If he bothered to learn them. But as you said, he's much better as an idiot that spams techniques than someone who can be creative.

    Unless you wanted him to learn more.

  12. #4252

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    like I said be 4 if naruto was not an idiot he would be above the guys that are above him now with his massive chakra and all. and that would pretty much make this manga dull, and we wont see how naruto struggles, he just be pwning everthing. just think about it, naruto handles dudes now and hes an idiot without skill and etc, givie him skill and etc.... he would own alot of guys....and then poeple would say dame naruto suckz he keeps pawing everyone.

  13. #4253

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    We're not saying that Naruto would be awesome if Naruto had all the moves. At the beginning.

    But after two and a half years of training and he hasn't progressed?

  14. #4254

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    Naruto is a lack luster main character in terms of ability. I am not denying that all. Eventually, he will be up to some of your guys standard. I am just saying he has the potential to realize his dreams.

    The kyuubi was a hinderance at first, Kakashi and Jirayia mentioned it. Jirayia was amazed he could even mold chakra.

    Yamato pretty much said the same thing but in a different light. He said Naruto would be stronger if he didnt rely on Kyuubi and he is going to seal it off completely. He also was amazed that Naruto's body was able to handle the 4-tails mode.
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  15. #4255

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    But would Naruto be stronger with Kyuubi sealed off completely? It may take quite a bit to adjust to no kyuubi, judging by how hard it was for him to walk on water without the kyuubi's power. Or he definitely won't be producing as many shadow clones, which on the other hand might actually be a good thing.

  16. #4256

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    Eventually he will be. He does lack confidence, I didnt notice it until the Sound spy arc. When Yamato said, you would be stronger if you used your own power. You are special without that demon. Naruto looked concerned and asked "Are you sure?". So, yeah he does have a confidence issue.

    Jirayia failed as a teacher and a few days with Yamato he set Naruto on the right path.
    yeah im here

  17. #4257

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by dlo62282 View Post
    Naruto is a lack luster main character in terms of ability. I am not denying that all. Eventually, he will be up to some of your guys standard. I am just saying he has the potential to realize his dreams.

    The kyuubi was a hinderance at first, Kakashi and Jirayia mentioned it. Jirayia was amazed he could even mold chakra.

    Yamato pretty much said the same thing but in a different light. He said Naruto would be stronger if he didnt rely on Kyuubi and he is going to seal it off completely. He also was amazed that Naruto's body was able to handle the 4-tails mode.
    If Naruto would be stronger without Kyuubi then why not put another five point seal on him the way Orochimaru did? I mean heck that kept Naruto from using Kyuubi chakra. Oh wait I forgot it totally messed him up completely and kept him from even molding chakra considering his chakra and the Kyuubi's are connected and both chakra sources are practically merging into one.

    That's just how it is. Naruto can't keep from using Kyuubi because he really IS the Kyuubi.

  18. #4258
    Token Black Guy gaara d. lucci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    Strange, all this discussion has motivated me to get back into the Naruto series heavy like I used to. Can't wait to see the next chapter.

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  19. #4259

    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    Because the 5 point seal messed up his regular chakra flow up as well. He didnt use the kyuubi chakra until he was pushed off the cliff.

    His chakra has been mixing with the kyuubi's but there is a big difference in using his chakra and turning into a demon. Hence why Yamato told him he was better off not doing that and his own power was fine.
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  20. #4260
    johan strasni Majek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Lawliet View Post
    It's because of Kyuubi that he was able to master the wind element. It is, however, Kakashi's sudden thing to give Naruto "inspiration" to put Wind into the Rasengan, even if the Rasengan right now looks like the rasengan with slight edges.
    Really? They why was Yamato surpressing the Kyuubi Chakra all the time? Naruto could've gone wind long ago if Kyuubi chakra wasn't so intervened with his.

    And that training with Jiraiya was just to help him improve on basic skills.
    Last edited by Majek; December 24th, 2006 at 02:56 AM.
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