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Thread: Dragonball Discussion

  1. #9541

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    And Goku stood in a circle and held hands with some other saiyans to achieve Super Saiyan God. And Piccollo fused with a half dead guy. And Vegeta had Babidi put a symbol on his head to let him go Super 2. And Vegeta had Bulma invent a moon ray gun to blast at him to let him go Super 4, skipping 3 entirely. And Frieza was ungodly powerful without having apparently trained a day in his life. And Broii instinctually had the power to decimate a galaxy. Goten and Chii Trunks managed to go Super withotu any training or effort whatsoever. Fusions (dance or earing) let you merge your power instantly with someone else more than doubling it. And Gohan at age 4 became stronger than Raditz just by being mad.

    Series is full of power ups or inate skill that aren't really earned from training. If Gohan was the one exception you'd maybe have a point, but he's not. Especially when Gohan having his full potential unlocked by sitting and focusing while a millions year old deity activated the key points of his ki isn't any cheaper... and Gohan *did* have all his training earlier in life, was ALWAYS said to have a well of hidden depths (that were tied to his anger.) that he used against Frieza and Cell prior. Mystic let him just grab hold of that poer without being pissed.

    That GT and now Super didn't know what to do with it was on GT, which was obviously loaded with problems anyway. (Movie 13 did okay with it.) It's only a problem because the people writing the follow ups just weren't paying any damn attention.
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  2. #9542

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    I would hope that SS3 would get a bit more love. I felt that transformation was shoehorned in for no real reason.

    I remember reading something somewhere that Toriyama said SS2 and SS3 were mutations of the normal SS form, and that SS is actually the most powerful.


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  3. #9543

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    I thought the statement was more or less that the later SS transformations were obsolete because of the stamina issues. SS1 is the only SS form other than Blue that focused on Ki control, and specifically not wasting it unnecessarily, which is pretty much what happens with SS2 and 3. SS3 alone drained up Goku's time on earth.
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  4. #9544
    Hells Memories Kishido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    And Goku stood in a circle and held hands with some other saiyans to achieve Super Saiyan God. And Piccollo fused with a half dead guy. And Vegeta had Babidi put a symbol on his head to let him go Super 2. And Vegeta had Bulma invent a moon ray gun to blast at him to let him go Super 4, skipping 3 entirely. And Frieza was ungodly powerful without having apparently trained a day in his life. And Broii instinctually had the power to decimate a galaxy. Goten and Chii Trunks managed to go Super withotu any training or effort whatsoever. Fusions (dance or earing) let you merge your power instantly with someone else more than doubling it. And Gohan at age 4 became stronger than Raditz just by being mad.

    Series is full of power ups or inate skill that aren't really earned from training. If Gohan was the one exception you'd maybe have a point, but he's not. Especially when Gohan having his full potential unlocked by sitting and focusing while a millions year old deity activated the key points of his ki isn't any cheaper... and Gohan *did* have all his training earlier in life, was ALWAYS said to have a well of hidden depths (that were tied to his anger.) that he used against Frieza and Cell prior. Mystic let him just grab hold of that poer without being pissed.

    That GT and now Super didn't know what to do with it was on GT, which was obviously loaded with problems anyway. (Movie 13 did okay with it.) It's only a problem because the people writing the follow ups just weren't paying any damn attention.
    To your info... I do not like any of the stuff you listed.

    And Vegeta was Super 2 before Majin. Stated in Daizenshu 7 and hinted in the manga itself.

    Still doesn't change the fact that ever since GT we now have the discussion how Mystic is working with him going Super Saiyan now.

    But you are right that this is a writers problem... but we will see what happens now ton Gohan

    PS
    Goten and Trunks should visit Elder Kai as well

  5. #9545

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kishido View Post
    To your info... I do not like any of the stuff you listed.
    So you basically hated all of Z then? Even the original chunk of the story with young Goku was loaded with BS powerups for Goku that weren't really intensive training involved but mostly (in hindsight) came from his Saiyan near-death powerups.

    And Vegeta was Super 2 before Majin. Stated in Daizenshu 7 and hinted in the manga itself.
    Data books are worthless for that sort of thing, rarely have actual input from the author, and made up by interns fanwanking off nothing and will vary from one book to the next, especially when it comes to power levels or naming things. Even Toriyama himself was so loose and forgetful and contradictory with these things, that even as the author his word isn't really the final say beyond what actually appeared on the page.

    Vegeta, who had no reason to hold back during the Buu arc and felt everyone was wasting their time, and in fact got pissed at Gohan for not being able to go even as far as he once did, never showed that he could go Super 2 before going Maijin, and in fact was driven to the point of making the evil deal purely from seeing how strong Goku was. Then, with the Maijin powerup, he was clearly Super 2 and still not truly able to match Goku, who was holding back the entire time for the sake of his pride

    Goten and Trunks should visit Elder Kai as well
    They dont have hidden potential like Gohan did. Gohan it was said over and over and over ALL THE TIME that he had huge ammounts of potential that he just couldn't harness because of his personality. That was his entire thing for his entire life.
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  6. #9546
    Under The Bridge Ageless_Bum's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kishido View Post
    PS
    Goten and Trunks should visit Elder Kai as well
    I could be wrong, but I do not believe anyone has ever made mention of Goten or Trunks having the same hidden potential as Gohan. It is my understanding that Gohan is a bit of an enigma in that regard. He has/had this vast reservoir of untapped potential power and no one quite knew why. His mystic "training" allowed him to tap into it.


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  7. #9547
    Hells Memories Kishido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    So you basically hated all of Z then? Even the original chunk of the story with young Goku was loaded with BS powerups for Goku that weren't really intensive training involved but mostly (in hindsight) came from his Saiyan near-death powerups.



    Data books are worthless for that sort of thing, rarely have actual input from the author, and made up by interns fanwanking off nothing and will vary from one book to the next, especially when it comes to power levels or naming things. Even Toriyama himself was so loose and forgetful and contradictory with these things, that even as the author his word isn't really the final say beyond what actually appeared on the page.

    Vegeta, who had no reason to hold back during the Buu arc and felt everyone was wasting their time, and in fact got pissed at Gohan for not being able to go even as far as he once did, never showed that he could go Super 2 before going Maijin, and in fact was driven to the point of making the evil deal purely from seeing how strong Goku was. Then, with the Maijin powerup, he was clearly Super 2 and still not truly able to match Goku, who was holding back the entire time for the sake of his pride



    They dont have hidden potential like Gohan did. Gohan it was said over and over and over ALL THE TIME that he had huge ammounts of potential that he just couldn't harness because of his personality. That was his entire thing for his entire life.
    Actually I like DB far more than DBZ... and I can enjoy stuff even with BS in it

    Won't debate the Vegeta stuff with you cuz you won't change your view on it. Just asking how Vegeta was sure being able to win the tournament at the start of the saga. Goku even mentioned Vegets most likely trained even harder than him. He wasn't surprised that Goku went Super 2 as well. The only thing he realized is that Goku still was stronger... as he was before while both being Super Saiyan.

    And what has Gohan's potential to do with Goten and Trunks visiting W÷der Kai. Even if they don't have the same amount as Gohan they still have some

  8. #9548

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    To be fair, whether Vegeta could go SSJ 2 beforehand just is completely up to speculation. My feeling says he could, but of course it's only a feeling.

  9. #9549
    Hells Memories Kishido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholemew Bear View Post
    To be fair, whether Vegeta could go SSJ 2 beforehand just is completely up to speculation. My feeling says he could, but of course it's only a feeling.
    This for over 2 decades.

    So we should the rest and happy new year to all

  10. #9550

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    The entire narrative of Vegeta going Maijin falls apart if he was able to reach that level prior to the powerup.

    If going super 2 AND evil still only brought him brought him to even with a Goku who was holding back the entire fight, then even if he was able to reach Super 2 it was an incredibly weak sauce version of it.

    He also seemed dissapointed that Gohan wasn't as strong as he was, and said "we're probably stronger than him now."
    http://www.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/453

    Not "I also achieved that form and am stronger than you" just... Gohan was weaker.

    Vegeta is not the sort to hide it when he has a new stronger form. Not even as a surprise. He might not go 100% right away, but he'd absolutely go right to the show off form to show what he'd achieved, and then brag about how this wasn't even everything. Or he'd be completely confident about being better than Gohan, sight unseen, if he'd tapped into the SS2 power at all. That he had surpassed the strength Gohan had showed.

    And then Vegeta wet his pants when he saw Goku power up against Yakkon... and Goku did NOT go Super 2 there.

    Goku was holding back Super 3 entirely.
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  11. #9551

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ageless_Bum View Post
    He has/had this vast reservoir of untapped potential power and no one quite knew why.
    The secret to Gohan's strength? Constant. Childhood. Trauma.
    Complicating things since 2009.

  12. #9552

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by LordPerucho View Post
    SSJB looks miles better,
    To me, Super Saiyan God was a very underwhelming-looking form that kinda reminded me of Kaioken (with the red)

    As for SSB, the color always throws me off. It looks very calming. I'm not the biggest fan of either tbh lol





  13. #9553

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    I would of liked like having different color depending on the character, like Goku's God form be red while Vegeta's God form be blue. I also think that The blue hair fits Vegeta better.

  14. #9554

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    The biggest BS power up was Goku drinking magic water (the second time, the first time was clever).

  15. #9555

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Wich one is the Dragon Ball game with an unhealthy ammount of characters?

    Tenkachi Budokai had the likes of gray Buu and the Female Pirate Flunky of Bojack, but Xenoverse 2 has Appule.. and.. eh.

    I'm looking for the one with the most characters, I'm not talking wide, but deep.

    Thinking about the time when One Piece gets it's videogame where you can fight Chuu vs Yamma.
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  16. #9556

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    the best one is where you can play as Freeza Soldier

    no other name
    just freeza soldier

  17. #9557

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    Wich one is the Dragon Ball game with an unhealthy ammount of characters?

    Tenkachi Budokai had the likes of gray Buu and the Female Pirate Flunky of Bojack, but Xenoverse 2 has Appule.. and.. eh.

    I'm looking for the one with the most characters, I'm not talking wide, but deep.

    Thinking about the time when One Piece gets it's videogame where you can fight Chuu vs Yamma.
    Tenkaichi 3 is the one where you can have General Blue, Generic Freeza Soldier (...Monrei?), Arale, Grandpa Gohan, Devilman, Pilaf's Robot, that girl Saiyan from the first Bardock special, Nam, and King Fucking Vegeta.

  18. #9558
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyan D. Funk View Post
    Tenkaichi 3 is the one where you can have General Blue, Generic Freeza Soldier (...Monrei?), Arale, Grandpa Gohan, Devilman, Pilaf's Robot, that girl Saiyan from the first Bardock special, Nam, and King Fucking Vegeta.
    And every Saiyan has an Oozaru form. Unfortunately, Nappa's one wasn't bald.

  19. #9559

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    The weirdest part was that Tenkaichi 3 had all of those characters and yet its story mode was half as involved as Tenkaichi 2's was.
    But hey, we got the cool what if where Devilman fights Freeza.





  20. #9560
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    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    All of those characters in Tenkaichi 3, and no Boss Carrot.

    Disappointing.
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