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Thread: Dragonball Discussion

  1. #7121

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    I don't mind Gohan being kind of a nerd, but he's not even relevant enough anymore to properly do a jobbing fight. He just gets knocked out with one hit constantly (and is used for tired durrrr so out of shape jokes).

  2. #7122

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion


  3. #7123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwok View Post
    Pretty sure the concern was about getting sued over the name "Zoro" by Disney should One Piece grow to be a major property in the West, much like Dragon Ball. Fortunately 4Kids sunk that ship before it could ever sail.
    Disney doesn't own the trademark for Zorro and had no standing for a lawsuit as a result. He was a licensed character and the Guy Williams version is simply the most famous one.

    Again, it clearly was because Shueisha trademarked the name Zolo and had their subsidiary change the name to match the trademark.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Yes. Censorship issue. For legal reasons rather than moral ones. They started with the correct "Zoro", and then switched to "Zolo" when there was pressure (or an outright mandate) from elsewhere to do so.
    Censorship gives the entirely wrong impression of what happened though; it was an internal decision motivated by merchandising concerns and not because the material was thought to be objectionable. If nothing else, calling it censorship helps further the notion that Disney or some other outside agency had something to do with it.

    Beyond that, the fact that Oda doesn't seem to care how names are translated is a strike against it being censorship; the author is not being inconvenienced in any fashion by the change. Changing Whitebeard's flag was censorship because it was a reaction to outside perception of the symbol but I don't think they've ever altered the artwork to change Zoro to Zolo.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by LordPerucho View Post
    Very interesting, wouldnt be surprising if Champa is weaker than Beerus.
    Didn't Champa say something about avoiding Beerus' notice? That wouldn't be a need to do so if Beerus wasn't the stronger of the two or at least powerful enough that Champa doesn't want to risk a fight at first.
    Complicating things since 2009.

  4. #7124

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    Censorship gives the entirely wrong impression of what happened though; it was an internal decision motivated by merchandising concerns and not because the material was thought to be objectionable. If nothing else, calling it censorship helps further the notion that Disney or some other outside agency had something to do with it.
    That's... what I said, basically. I was just using a shorthand term that may not be 100% acurate, but has the same idea.

    They had it right at the start, had evidence within the series itself of how it was supposed to be in English, then they knowingly changed it due to outside factors. And that's why it bugs everyone.

    Meanwhile, Jinbe/Jimbei doesn't bother anyone, because that's a case where they just flat out translated it before an official romanization was available.

  5. #7125

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    So Gohan's wedding photo from the last episode of Super pretty much confirmed Gohan was raised by two Dads?

    Seems about right.
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  6. #7126

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    Quote Originally Posted by LordPerucho View Post
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...f86a34cd906b3b

    Very interesting, wouldnt be surprising if Champa is weaker than Beerus.
    didn't beerus states in the first film that he is the weaker of the 8 gods of destructions?

  7. #7127

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Mr Satan also in Italy

  8. #7128

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    Quote Originally Posted by rereboy View Post
    Zolo is an legitimate and possible translation for his name. Its just not as good as Zoro. So, I never had any problems with it.
    His name was officially romanized as Zoro by Oda. It's written on his bounty poster so anything else is factually wrong.
    Last edited by Horizon; July 22nd, 2015 at 10:48 PM.

  9. #7129

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    His name was officially romanized as Zoro by Oda. It's written on his bounty poster so anything else is factually wrong.
    Nope. Thats not inherantly in and of itself enough reason to go with a particular spelling.

    It's a VERY GOOD ONE and a good guide and should in general be adhered to when possible.

    But Oda is NOT a fluent speaker, and he didn't have help. While in that particular case its fine, a japanese creator writing in English is NOT automatically correct, even coming from the creator. Otherwise you end up with things like Shilliew instead of Shiryu, or "its astounding how fast the time fleets."

    Author intent is one thing, and most of the time that's what you should go with... but he's still human and not automatically correct when it comes to other languages and the romanzation and pronunciation of names.

  10. #7130
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    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    His name was officially romanized as Zoro by Oda. It's written on his bounty poster so anything else is factually wrong.
    You are missing the point. With the way Rs and Ls work when translating from Japanese, Zolo is also a legitimate and possible way of translating it. The fact that the author prefers Zoro and the fact that origin of the name where the author took inspiration from points more towards Zoro, only makes it so that Zoro is preferable to Zolo. But it doesn't make Zolo not possible or not legitimate. Claiming that it's wrong, not possible and so on, is just being too extremist regarding the issue, imo.

  11. #7131

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    While in that particular case its fine, a japanese creator writing in English is NOT automatically correct, even coming from the creator. Otherwise you end up with things like Shilliew instead of Shiryu, or "its astounding how fast the time fleets."

    Or you end up with such great names as:
    Killua Zaoldyeck (instead of Killua Zoldyck)
    Curarpikt (instead of Kurapika)
    Kkkyau (instead of Kikyo)
    Syarnorkl (instead of Shalnark)

    or my personal favourite: Quwrof Wrlccywrlir (instead of Chrollo Lucifer)

  12. #7132

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Author intent is one thing, and most of the time that's what you should go with... but he's still human and not automatically correct when it comes to other languages and the romanzation and pronunciation of names.
    I don't think you have to be completely fluent in a particular language to learn to utmost basic rules in spelling simple words especially with a language as easy to learn as English. English is frequently used in One Piece both spoken and written. I'm sure Oda knows his fair share of it. He does tons of research on various things and he's been pretty consistent with his romanization of names. He pretty much knows the difference between R's and L's. I'm not quite sure of the specifics behind the translation of Shiryu/Shiliew.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by rereboy View Post
    You are missing the point. With the way Rs and Ls work when translating from Japanese, Zolo is also a legitimate and possible way of translating it. The fact that the author prefers Zoro and the fact that origin of the name where the author took inspiration from points more towards Zoro, only makes it so that Zoro is preferable to Zolo. But it doesn't make Zolo not possible or not legitimate. Claiming that it's wrong, not possible and so on, is just being too extremist regarding the issue, imo.
    As I mentioned before "possible" translations of his name shouldn't matter in this situation since we were already given one to go with in the very series itself. It makes no sense whatsoever to go with "Zolo" when it's blatantly written as "Zoro".

  13. #7133

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Again. In Zoro's particular case, Oda got it right and it really should be the version gone with if at all possible.

    But, Oda-san isn't 100%, most japanese speakers aren't, and so "because he wrote it in English" is NOT by itself a good enough reason to stick with a thing, because he has gotten things really off before, especially in his color spreads. He's not fluent, he makes Engrish mistakes, and an English translator's judgement outweighs his some of the time.

    Not in Zoro's case, but some of the time.

  14. #7134
    True Believer rereboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post

    As I mentioned before "possible" translations of his name shouldn't matter in this situation since we were already given one to go with in the very series itself. It makes no sense whatsoever to go with "Zolo" when it's blatantly written as "Zoro".
    You are just arguing that Zoro is a better translation. And yes, I agree with you that it's better, I just don't really have problems with it or really care since Zolo is also a possible and legitimate translation for his name.

    To me it's not really all that different from a translator choosing a synonym over an adjective that would fit the original intent better. Sure, it would have been better if the translator had used the adjective that fit better instead of using a synonym, but whatever.

  15. #7135

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Again. In Zoro's particular case, Oda got it right and it really should be the version gone with if at all possible. But, Oda-san isn't 100%, most japanese speakers aren't, and so "because he wrote it in English" is NOT by itself a good enough reason to stick with a thing, because he has gotten things really off before, especially in his color spreads. He's not fluent, he makes Engrish mistakes, and an English translator's judgement outweighs his some of the time. Not in Zoro's case, but some of the time.
    I agree wholeheartedly. I probably should have worded by post better.

  16. #7136

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    The reason doesn't really matter, its still a change that was made from right to wrong for no particularly good reason... rather than just being a legitimate translation issue of working better that way in the language or the translators not knowing any better.
    TBH, Freeza was the same.

    Bandai put out DB products early in it's run including US versions of their "Super Battle Collection" figures very early in DBZ's US run, and those included characters who had not yet appeared on the show. ALL of their products that referenced Freeza's name spelled it right at this time.


    And in the closed captioning scripts provided to broadcasters for the early series, it was also, again, universally "Freeza".


    It was only when Edited Ocean Dub episode 34 aired that the wrong spelling first happened because it was on the episode title and therefore visible without using Closed Captioning. Nobody knows why they abruptly changed, but at this point they trademarked the wrong spelling so now every FUNimation product has to use it. Why did they do this? Nobody knows. Maybe they REALLY wanted to trademark it and ran into problems with "Freeza" being too generic/close to the word "Freezer"?

    Anyway, Any official Dragonball product that ISN'T based on the English dub of the anime in America uses the "Freeza" spelling including the FUNi subtitles on all their products, and ALL official Viz Manga products featuring his name including the manga itself.


    As far as other character names go, I don't do the weeaboo thing IE: Bejita or Torankusu, but I tend to prefer transliterations of the names that at least preserve the intended pun.
    I used to call Krillin "Kuririn" for example, but I acknowledge that despite inconsistencies, Toriyama wrote "Krillin" and "Bulma" making those two accurate enough to use them.

    The only dub names that irk me are Freeza's, Tenshinhan's, and Kaio's.
    Actually, Especially Kaio's.

    His name means "World King" or "King of Worlds", which is why that's what Viz called him "The Lord of Worlds, Kaio".
    It's kindof annoying to me that they half-translated his name.... like, I kindof wish they'd either translated it all, or left it alone... but on top of that, they took the attack SPECIFICALLY NAMED AFTER HIM and didn't adapt it consistently with his name

    Kaio -> King Kai
    Kaio-ken -> "Kayo-ken" Kaio-ken

    Wut?

    It even created a ton of confusion when Budokai came out for the PS2 and someone was on the ball there and figured "well, if they're translating Kaio as 'King Kai', this attack aught to be King Kai Fist right?"
    but because whoever named him in the dub proper wasn't on the ball, this looked weird and dumb to people lol

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  17. #7137

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    tl;dr Mr. Satan goes undercover in many different countries under the pseudonym "Hercule" and Freezer is Cooler, and Cooler is Friezer

  18. #7138

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Hermit View Post
    tl;dr Mr. Satan goes undercover in many different countries under the pseudonym "Hercule" and Freezer is Cooler, and Cooler is Friezer
    It's funny to me that people still call Mr. Satan "Hercule" in the US, considering DBZ hasn't aired on TV in YEARS, so the ONLY way to see it is via DVD/Blu-ray where he's referred to as Mr. Satan almost exclusively, even in the dub. I think there's like... one throwaway line in the Cell games that calls him "Hercule Satan", but otherwise the dub pretty much ONLY calls him Mr. Satan, so the idea that most people still only know him as "Hercule" is weird to me.

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  19. #7139

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    That's pretty reasonable all things considered because the fanbase that watched it at its peak probably don't rewatch the show on DVDs or Blu-rays

    Or rewatch in general. Primary exposure is hard to knock off if nobody follows up on your merch afterward

  20. #7140

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    considering DBZ hasn't aired on TV in YEARS, so the ONLY way to see it is via DVD/Blu-ray where he's referred to as Mr. Satan almost exclusively, even in the dub.
    Kai has been airing pretty steadily though, first on Nickelodeon and currently on Cartoon Network. No idea how that handles Satan since I only ever catch the airings in mid Namek and dont care to rewatch Cell, but... DBZ has absolutely been airing regularly on tv more recently than "years" ago.

    Cartoon Network even had a fourth of July marathon.

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